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jlastofka
Joined: 10 Jun 2007 Posts: 254 City/Region: Vista
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Bossa Nova
Photos: Bossa Nova
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:00 am Post subject: Anchor rode length? |
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I've looked through the posts and didn't find a discussion of what lengths of lines people are really deploying. The books say with a 7:1 scope you get almost 100% of the anchor's holding power. Obviously this assumes something about the bottom. If you hook onto something substantial (well-shaped rock, cable, sunken ship) you could use a lot less scope.... In sand or mud, the scope would be more important.
In crowded anchorages and protected water, we normally use something like 3:1 here in Southern California. Even less sometimes.
What do people find they can normally use? I'm thinking a Fortress FX-16 (big aluminum danforth) and 20' 1/4" chain and 300' 1/2" line with a windlass on the 22 cruiser I'm getting in a week or so. I have some other anchors lying around, up to a 35lb CQR, but I think I'll try the FX-16 first, because I have it handy and it only weighs 10 lbs.
If I anchor off Catalina Island, it's going to be in about 100' of water, so anything over 3:1 is going to be a LOT of line.
(Maybe I'll decide to actually try the 35lb CQR. That ought to hold.)
Anyway, what do you find is a reasonable length to actually deploy if you're not in a hurricane?......
Jeff |
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C-Hawk
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 2146 City/Region: Carpinteria / Channel Islands
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Hawk
Photos: C-Hawk
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:09 am Post subject: |
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Jeff,
I use a 16# bruce with 40' chain and 200' rode. I rode out a nasty night at Little Scorpian on Santa Cruz Island a couple years ago- the anchor held great. _________________ Roger
2002- CD22- "Fishtales" returned to factory 2008
2008- CD22- "C-Hawk" Sold
KJ6VVB
A Brat I am, At sea I be
God is Great, Beer is Good.... and People are Crazy |
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Dora~Jean
Joined: 09 Mar 2004 Posts: 1511 City/Region: Simi Valley
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Dora~Jean
Photos: Dora~Jean
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:39 am Post subject: |
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I have a 25 so slightly different than your requirements. I have a 22lb Delta anchor with 30 ft of 5/16+ chain and 280 ft of rode. Works well for me in all conditons and bottoms I've encountered so far, more chain is always better but have to consider the extra weight on board. The general rule of thumb is chain = length of boat or more.
To reduce scope in good (calm) conditions, first set the anchor at 5 to 1 or greater, then reduce scope to 3 or 4 to 1. But under reduced scope I wouldn't leave the boat or sleep overnight in that configuration.
And remember your anchoring depth must include the height above water where your rode attaches. _________________ Steve & Carmen
"Great works are performed not by strength, but perseverance" (Samuel Johnson)
Dora~Jean C-Dory 25 2002-Present
Corsair F-31 Trimaran 1996-2002
MacGregor 26X 1988-1996
Glaspar Seafair Sedan 18 (2)
StarCraft 19 & 22
Catalina 17 & 22
Crestliner 19
+4 Previous, 1/2 sail, 1/2 power
Last edited by Dora~Jean on Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:53 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Sea Wolf
Joined: 01 Nov 2003 Posts: 8650 City/Region: Redding
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 1987
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sea Wolf
Photos: Sea Wolf
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:10 am Post subject: Re: Anchor rode length? |
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jlastofka wrote: | I've looked through the posts and didn't find a discussion of what lengths of lines people are really deploying. The books say with a 7:1 scope you get almost 100% of the anchor's holding power. Obviously this assumes something about the bottom. If you hook onto something substantial (well-shaped rock, cable, sunken ship) you could use a lot less scope.... In sand or mud, the scope would be more important.
In crowded anchorages and protected water, we normally use something like 3:1 here in Southern California. Even less sometimes.
What do people find they can normally use? I'm thinking a Fortress FX-16 (big aluminum danforth) and 20' 1/4" chain and 300' 1/2" line with a windlass on the 22 cruiser I'm getting in a week or so. I have some other anchors lying around, up to a 35lb CQR, but I think I'll try the FX-16 first, because I have it handy and it only weighs 10 lbs.
If I anchor off Catalina Island, it's going to be in about 100' of water, so anything over 3:1 is going to be a LOT of line.
(Maybe I'll decide to actually try the 35lb CQR. That ought to hold.)
Anyway, what do you find is a reasonable length to actually deploy if you're not in a hurricane?......
Jeff |
Jeff-
I have the Fortress FX-16 on my CD-22.
It's a great anchor, and I like the light weight on the bow roller. I use it with 100 ft of chain (there goes the light bow!) followed by 200 ft of rope to keep the pull horizontal.
This anchor is best suited for sand and mud, and must definitely power set solidly to be trustworthy.
In tests, it does not reset well in direction changes in big winds.
I would not use it if I were anticipating anchoring in rocks, grass, or hard clay.
I'd be sure to use plenty of chain (25-40 ft) to keep the pull horizontal.
For a more universal anchor, I'd choose the plow type (i.e., Delta Fastset), or the claw type (Bruce or similar).
I'd keep that 35 lb CQR down someplace admidships ready to switch out with your normal anchor as a storm anchor.
Some of the foregoing is based on personal experience, but most on a great amount of reading posts and anchor tests.
Good Luck On the Hook!
Joe. _________________ Sea Wolf, C-Brat #31
Lake Shasta, California
"Most of my money I spent on boats and women. The rest I squandered'. " -Annonymous |
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drjohn71a
Joined: 15 Jul 2004 Posts: 1820 City/Region: Wichita
State or Province: KS
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Tom-a-Hawk
Photos: Tom-a-Hawk
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:30 am Post subject: |
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Jeff,
While the TomCat has more wind and sea working against the anchor than your CD22, here are some more thoughts:
As Joe said, it's always good to have a monster anchor stowed away for heavy seas, winds, etc.. Sometimes I put both out to reduce the swing. Sometimes, when I'm nervous about sleeping, I'll just haul out the monster anchor so I can relax.
My TomCat came with a fairly small, to my eye, Delta Fastset on the windlass. It can drag fairly easily if not set hard at the start, and can be pulled out by a sharp wind change, esp. on a 1 to 3 ratio in soft bottom.
My killer, monster anchor is a 22 pound Danforth that I used to use on my previous houseboat. I have 10 foot of chain and 200 foot of rope on that one. (most of our anchorages are about 20-25 foot).
I'd advise having a rope and chain mounted on the heavier 2nd anchor. Sometimes you need it quick.
John |
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Doryman
Joined: 03 Oct 2006 Posts: 3807 City/Region: Anacortes
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Lori Ann
Photos: Lori Ann
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:40 am Post subject: |
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drjohn71a wrote: | My killer, monster anchor is a 22 pound Danforth that I used to use on my previous houseboat. I have 10 foot of chain and 200 foot of rope on that one. (most of our anchorages are about 20-25 foot).
I'd advise having a rope and chain mounted on the heavier 2nd anchor. Sometimes you need it quick. |
Presumably your Delta remains on the windlass? When you deploy your Danforth, do you just throw it over the side and tie it off to the bow cleat? I would think you would need some kind of roller or something. Please explain in more detail!
Thanks,
Warren _________________ Doryman
M/V Lori Ann
TomCat 255, Hull #55, 150 Yamahas
Anacortes, WA
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Larry H
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 2041 City/Region: Tulalip,
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1991
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: Nancy H
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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It's not a good idea to 'throw' a danforth over the side. The anchor will 'fly' or 'plane' thru the water and can wind up somewhere you don't want or can foul the chain as the chain can sink faster than the anchor.
It's best to lower the anchor till it touches the bottom. Then start backing the boat and pay out the rode. When the pre-chosen length of rode is reached, cleat it off and idle or coast backwards till the anchor sets and the rode comes up tight.
I always apply a little throttle in reverse to ensure that the anchor is set. _________________ Larry H
A C-Brat since Nov 1, 2003
Ranger Tug 27 ex 'Jacari Maru' 2017 - 2022
Puget Trawler 37 ex 'Jacari Maru' 2006-2017
1991 22' Cruiser, 'Nancy H'--1991-2006 |
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drjohn71a
Joined: 15 Jul 2004 Posts: 1820 City/Region: Wichita
State or Province: KS
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Tom-a-Hawk
Photos: Tom-a-Hawk
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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Well, let me see... If the weather/water is rough,then the primary anchor line from the windlass ought to be tied off to that bow cleat.
For two anchors, first you set the windlass anchor so that, when you're all done, you'll have 45-60 angles of pull on each anchor. The higher the degree of pull up to 90, the stronger the combined setup.
Then you slowly putt around, using the first anchor line like a 'radius' drawing tool until your spot to drop the second anchor comes up. A line between the two anchors will end up perpendicular to where your boat will finally be.
Drop the second anchor carefully by hand and back off on it pulling close to the final angle of pull. I usuallly aim for 60 degrees from each anchor. When you are done, your boat should be offset about half way between the two anchors, perpendicular to a line drawn between the two anchors.
Many times, I 'd just pull up the smaller anchor and drop and set the heavy anchor. That works fine except on poor bottoms and massive wind/wave action.
Also, as a note for general TomCat anchoring, to minimize the hull slapping at anchor, you can drop and set the windlassed anchor, then loop a line around that anchor line and tie it back to the port or starboard forward cleat and pull it until main anchor line leads out at about 45 degrees. The boat will still sail and slap a bit, but it can only sail short runs in one direction and won't keep sailing up one way, turning the other way and sailin that way. Two anchors is the best setup to stop sailing at anchor.
I almost never tie an anchor up to any where but the bow cleat.
John |
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El and Bill
Joined: 08 Nov 2003 Posts: 3200 City/Region: Lakewood, CO
State or Province: CO
C-Dory Year: 2000
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Halcyon
Photos: Halcyon
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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We use a slightly oversized Bruce, 20' chain, and 200 feet of line -- haven't pulled out yet. In Alaska and British Columbia, we use 300' of line. We have the fortress as our backup -- a great light-weight anchor. Swinging on the Bruce as we answer your inquiry. _________________ El and Bill (former live-aboards)
Halcyon 2000 CD 22 Bought 2000 Sold 2012
http://cruisingamerica-halcyondays.com/ |
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drjohn71a
Joined: 15 Jul 2004 Posts: 1820 City/Region: Wichita
State or Province: KS
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Tom-a-Hawk
Photos: Tom-a-Hawk
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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Warren...
I now see that I didn't fully address your question as to how to handle the auxillary anchor rode as it goes from the bow cleat to the water.
I run it between the railing posts. You could make a harness to hold it in between to vertical railing posts. On my other boats, I had bow chocks to run the rope thru to prevent chafing against the fiberglass. I've not had two anchors out for long lately. One could wrap some chafing gear, leathers, carpet, but probably a good set of chocks installed would be a good idea.
You may have already noticed in stormy weather anchorages that, with the currently supplied bow roller and winch setup, the anchor rode easily jumps out of the roller and ends up rubbing on the fiberglass. So, we probably ought to do something to better contain the anchor rode as it leaves the bow.
John |
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drjohn71a
Joined: 15 Jul 2004 Posts: 1820 City/Region: Wichita
State or Province: KS
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Tom-a-Hawk
Photos: Tom-a-Hawk
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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Oh.... and to answer jlovstacka... s question...
I don't like to sleep on less than a 6 to 1 rode to depth ratio. 10 to 1 is the most relaxing. I do know you can get by on less... OK if you're awake fishing and/or watching, but oh boy can you wake up to some surprises if anchored on short ratios!
John |
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drjohn71a
Joined: 15 Jul 2004 Posts: 1820 City/Region: Wichita
State or Province: KS
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Tom-a-Hawk
Photos: Tom-a-Hawk
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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Best answer is for you to get either the Chapman's Seamanship book and/or the U.S. Coast Guard's Seamanship manual. They are filled with highly detailed info just like this and you can browse all winter long... and learn.
John |
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Dreamer
Joined: 01 Jan 2006 Posts: 1764 City/Region: Really Sunny SaddleBrooke
State or Province: AZ
Photos: Dreamer
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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If you just can't get enough information on anchoring, Earl R. Hinz has written "The Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring". At 300 pages, it provides more information than most people want!
Dreamer-22 lb. Delta Fastset, 50' 1/4" Chain, 250' 1/2" Nylon Rode. Works for us. _________________ Roger
Once a C-Brat, always a C-Brat
Dreamer- Sold 25 Feb. 2013 |
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drjohn71a
Joined: 15 Jul 2004 Posts: 1820 City/Region: Wichita
State or Province: KS
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Tom-a-Hawk
Photos: Tom-a-Hawk
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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Of course, the local power squadron courses are the best way to learn your own area.
John |
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colobear
Joined: 23 Jan 2005 Posts: 2154 City/Region: Denver
State or Province: CO
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: C-Cakes
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with Dreamer about the "Complete Book of Anchoring", I've read it twice (skipping a few parts) and have gained a lot. _________________ Patti and Barry
formerly C-Cakes, now
rving around N. America |
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