Power Tilt/Trim on Honda 45

Captains Cat · Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 10:21 am Post subject: Power Tilt/Trim on Honda 45

My Port Tilt/Trim quit working suddenly this morning. Launched yesterday and it worked fine, brought both engines up last night at the end of a cruise and now the port one won't go back down.

The electric motor runs, but nothing happens. According to the manual, there is a manual relief valve but if it was open, I could push the motor down and I can't. Hard to check the oil in the water so I'll probably have to pull the boat again.

I have a spare unit that I've removed from El and Bil's old 40 that looks fine and I'm pretty sure it'll fit (the 35's, 40's, 45's and 50's are all identical frame wise).

What I don't know is if it's possible to remove that with the engine still on the boat. There's a zinc holding both frame arms at the very bottom of the mount that, when I removed it, it allowed the old one on my parts engine (thanks again El and Bill) to slide out easily. Don't know if that will happen on the boat with both arms bolted firmly to the transom. The manual says to lay the engine on the right side to remove this. Obviously I can't do that with the engine on the boat Disgust

Anyone know if it's possible with the engine still on the boat?

It could be an oil problem and I'll check that first. It uses ATF fluid according to the manual. There's also a "drive pin" that the electric motor engages the hydraulic pump with, that could be sheared.

Anyone?

BTW, the old problem with the Stbd Engine not making full RPMs is no more. I didn't change anything, it just fixed itself... Shocked

Charlie

DaveS · Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 12:28 pm Post subject:

Good Morning Charlie,
I experienced a similar issue a while back with one of my 50 HP Johnsons (same engine as a Suzuki). The engine would go up mechanically, but would not go down without using the "manual relief" screw. Initially, it was an intermittent problem and then became a permanent problem. The problem was finally detected and corrected.....it was merely a "loose wire" at the switch on the engine. Hopefully, yours is such a "simple fix".

Captains Cat · Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 1:33 pm Post subject:

Hope so too Dave. Going to pull the boat in a few minutes and see. It's not a wire, I'm sure because the motor that powers the hydraulics runs in both directions, the pump just doesn't pump.

Charlie

Captains Cat · Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 2:15 pm Post subject:

AH, the mystery deepens. Just got back from bringing the tow vehicle/trailer down the road to the neighbor's ramp and riding back to the boat in the golf cart. Got into the boat, for grins, tried to lower both engines and they BOTH worked this time Disgust

It sure didn't this morning about 9AM. You can see how long it took to get it ready to haul, it's now 2:13 and my last post was at 1:33 EDT.

At least I didn't spend a lot of time on it and because I thought I needed it, I've now got a spare trim/tilt unit ready to use here or for someone else if they need it first.

Still got the Alternator, Starter and fuel pump too if anyone needs one of those puppies.

Maybe the hydraulics were just asleep? Crook

Charlie

Jazzmanic · Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 3:06 pm Post subject:

Charlie,

Our tilt/trim went haywire on our Suzuki last summer on the way to the Bellingham gathering. It started going up and down on it's own and then finally stuck on the up position. It turns out it was a bad relay to the power tilt switch. Thus a very easy fix, covered by warranty of course.

Maybe that's what's going on with your engine. Maybe a bad relay?

Peter

B~C · Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 3:47 pm Post subject:

self healing outboards...gotta like it.....you wouldn't happen to have a spare tilt switch that mounts on the engine or a trim/tilt relay that you wanted to part with?

thanks,
ken

Captains Cat · Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 4:13 pm Post subject:

They're in there Ken, all I gotta do is take them out. Where is the relay? I know where the rocker switch is, not sure how to take it out but I've got the big factory service manual and I'll figure it out.

Peter, thanks but I don't think so. I believe if it was the relay, I wouldn't hear the electric motor run at all (right? Question

)

Charlie

B~C · Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 4:37 pm Post subject:

relay location- if you're standing in front of the tilt switch with the cowling off, it's hidding under a variety pack of wires below and to the left of the switch location. It's a little balck box with a ground wire bolted to the engine block. If you want to mess with disecting that engine I'd sure appreciate it and would make it worth you while.

if the relay was bad it would not run or, run all the time. That's what happend to mine...well...actually when the boat was rigged they pinched the wires from the remote tilt/trim, they shorted and the poor engine just started tilting up on it's own. Damn lucky I was home and happend to hear it and got it shut down or the whole durn boat may have burned up, as it was the relay just went belly up

Captains Cat · Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 4:56 pm Post subject:

I found them, both in the manual and on the engine, should be relatively easy to take out. Do you want the black box that the trim position indicator connects into too? It's more towards the back of the engine.

Send me a PM with a mailing address and I'll see if I can get them out tomorrow.

No charge for anything except shipping, courtesy of Bill and El...

The carburetors are somewhere in Alaska and the lower unit is on my starboard engine. I'll hold on to the carcass until I trip over it again in the shop and hurt myself.

Charlie

311sail · Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 5:19 pm Post subject:

hey BC

did you hear a click at the trim switch when the relay was bad....Im having problems with my 1994 45hp.....wont move a bit!!!

I was thinking of taking the relay out of the port engine just test it! is that a good idea?

thanks mat

Captains Cat · Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 6:27 pm Post subject:

Mat, there are several "tests" you can do that are in the factory manual. Look if you have one, if you don't, I'll scan the pages and post them in the documents section or e-mail them to you.

Charlie

B~C · Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 8:38 pm Post subject:

Mat- my relay was in the permanent tilt up mode and all I heard was the tilt motor screaming. The relay is actually two relays in one with the motor leads having continuity to ground, energizing one relay switches the one lead from ground to power. If you have nothing in either direction, I'd look close at the ground connection first.
If you remove it to bench test it, there are some wires that snake around and up to a junction box. Tie a line on the wires before pulling them out of the junction box so you have something to help you pull the wires back where they belong.

Charlie- PM on the way, I'll pass on the trim indicator gadgmo. This sure a great help, when my relay fried I made my own replacement and I suspect that my replacement is missing some Honda wonder circuitery and is the reason the switch has died. I insist on sending at least enough funding to cover a couple of rounds of adult beverages at your next east coast gathering Smile

Your intermitted hydraulic problem could be a piece of fecal matter in the little pump reservour ocasionally plugging the pump inlet port

Captains Cat · Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 9:28 am Post subject:

311sail · Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 3:38 pm Post subject:

Charlie,

thanks for the offer.....I found the "tests" in the manual! Looks like I have some more options to chase down...I will start with the ground wire and a bench test of the relay.....

thanks again....
mat

Captains Cat · Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 4:15 pm Post subject:

Mike, if you need any parts, let me know, I've got some left on this old motor from Bill and El.

Charlie