Used 1990 22 Cruiser-need advice

[Juneau_Jason]

I'm currently courting a 1990 22 foot cruiser which is on the market in Juneau. Considering the boat is 14 years old, I would consider it in excellent condition. There is one repair where the gel coat on the transom split and there was water damage due to freezing. I spoke to the shop that did the repairs. They were confident that it would not be an issue in the future. It's obvious that the boat has been taken care of.

The package comes with a trailer, an older VHF, a depth sounder, electric windshield wipers, a windless, anchor, all the CG equipment, two hand operated downriggers, and a newer 4-stroke 9.9 hp kicker. The only downfall is the main, which is original power. According to the second and current owner, the engine has 700 hours, but is unable to verify this. A compression check had each of the three cylinders fairly close to 120 pounds. Even so, I'm still concerned about its dependibility. We intend to use the boat to cruise and fish in SE Alaska. Practically, this means we need a realiable engine. We test drove the boat tonight, and I couldn't identify anything out of the ordinary with the engine. This was my first ride in a CD, and, to be honest, I'm in love with the things.

Given my description above, my question is whether the $24,900 asking price is reasonable. According to what I've gleaned from this bb, this is a little high, especially so considering the age of the engine. Any thoughts?

[TyBoo]

Hi JJ -

The TyBoo22 (1987 22 Cruiser) went for $23,000 with a little more equipment than you listed. It had 2000 Hondas - 75 main and 8 kicker - with 900 hours on the main. The hull was in great shape, excepting some cosmetic flaws. I am thinking that $24,900 might be a little high, but then there are probably more used CD's down here in the NW mainland.

And, as you said:

[Juneau_Jason]

I think we're thinking along the same lines. According to Jeff at the factory, this is a $20,000 boat. If I were to find a comparable boat in the PS area and ship it up to AK, it would cost around 1k. Also, boats are generally more valuable in an area only accessed by boat or plane. I do have reasonable confidence in the main, given it's 15 years old, so I figure I'll offer 19k and stop negotiating at 21k. If I can get another couple of years out of it, then I think 21k is reasonable.

One thought I had when contemplating how I would approach this boat is to look at the original asking price of the boat itself. The engine is probably worth $500 to $850. If the 1990 price of the boat is less than the asking price in 2004, minus the value of the engine, then something's wrong. There should be some depreciation. Just kind of thinking out loud here. Thanks for any advice.

[wilbe asea]

On the C-Dog discussion group, En pissant1 writes he just purchased a 1987 22' angler for 13,000. Didn't catch what it had for power.

[jdoskoch]

Some advice from a former SE Alaskan... IMO the price is way too high considering the motor's age, use in salt water, water damage. Most importantly, I would not be trusting my fate on a 15 year old motor with unverifiable hours in SE AK waters. A new 9.9 is great, but in bad weather and a bum main you will be asking for trouble. The risks are a lot greater up there than boaters anywhere else face.

Also, from previous experience of many dollars sacrificed to the boat gods, you WILL find yourself at the mercy of your local engine repair shop. Count on frustration of many dollars going down the tubes and time spent boatless waiting in line for service.

If you plan on making an offer, I would start much lower than 19K and start saving for a new 90. You'd probably find a better deal though buying in Seattle and shipping north.

Good luck finding your dream boat... still looking for mine too. Plan to return to your neck of the woods again in about 15 years.

[MIKE MANNELL]

Jason,

I just checked out the N.A.D.A. web site and it has every year and model of C-Dory listed to profile a "ballpark" market value. This is not a difinitive source, but it's pretty good. Check it out - NADA.com.

Good luck,

Mike

[My IRA]

Jason,

In answer to your question, I checked our records and we paid $15,500 for our 1992 Cruiser (1/12/92). That price was just for the boat and was purchased in Coos Bay, Oregon. I know that this is not a 1990 but it's close.

Good luck with your search.

[Larry H]

Hi all,

I don't think NADA has a clue as to C-Dory pricing. They think my 1991 22 cruiser is only worth $7,100. This model is selling used for $20,000-$25,000 or more depending on the motors, electronics, and accessories.

I think NADA uses a % reduction based on the year of the boat.

[rhys]

Hi Jason,

In February I purchased a used 1987 22' Cruiser with the original Johnson 70hp and Johnson 9.9 hp kicker. The main engine had 154 hours, no trailer. The boat had been stored under cover in the water since it was new. Basically it had been neglected but hardly used. The water tank had never been filled and the alcohol stove was only used on one side and I suspect not more than a few times.

After much elbow grease and about every kind of chemical know to man, it looks like new. I paid $15,000 and put another $3,200 into the outboards, batteries, new VHF and stereo. The main is in great shape and the 9.9 I'll run until it dies.

They are great little boats.

Best regards,

Rhys Spoor
Island Flyer

[Adeline]

JJ, My boat (ADELINE) is an '89 w/ a Johnson 70 that I love. It has 1400 hours and runs like new. When it dies I can have it rebuilt for about 2500.00. A new Evinrude E-Tec 90 runs about 8500.00. MY motor weighs about 250#s. The E-Tec about 305. Four strokes much more. I know the prevailing wisdom is to go for the heavier, spendier four-stroke, but I just can't see it. Pete

[Da Nag]

[Juneau_Jason]

Thanks for all the adivce. There's also a 2003 in town with an asking price of $37,500. It's basically new, with a Suzuki 4 stroke 90, color plotter/GPS, VHF, alcohol stove, crab puller, but no kicker. The boat was brushed by another boat, so the cabin trim on one side is scuffed. As far as I can tell, this is purely cosmetic damage. We made an offer of $30k our thinking being that if we can get the 1990 for around $20k and have to repower with a 4 stroke in the next couple of years, we're into it for $28k already. Why not see if we can get the new boat, right? We'll see what happens, but this seems like it would be a great deal.

[Les Lampman]

Hi Pete,

With the death knell ringing on carbureted 2-engines (of any kind) I would suggest that rebuilding one these days would not be money spent wisely. No manufacturer is going to continue to produce carbureted 2-strokes engine for much longer; I think certainly not after 2008.

There is no issue whatsoever with regard to the weight of an e-Tec or 4-stroke on the transom of a C-Dory 22.

Having dealt primary with 4-stroke outboards the last 8 years I'm naturally inclined toward them; however, the new e-Tec engines do look very promising. But if you take a look at the application in which we're using them I don't believe they pencil out as well as the 4-stroke engines on a hull like the C-Dory 22. The advantage that say an e-Tec 90 has in comparison with a 90hp 4-stroke is in the horsepower-to-weight ratio and in the 'kick' out of the hole; not things that are important on a CD22. The 4-strokes are better at handling loads and in the mid-range of the power band; just what is needed on a CD22.

The reason for the 4-stroke is longevity; we don't know what that is on a e-Tec engine. Four stroke engines routinely get 4 to 5 times as many hours on them as do 2-stroke engines (especially carbureted versions) before they're "worn out". In fact, talking about rebuilding a 4-stroke isn't even a practical reality; by the time that's necessary the engine is 20-years-old and the economics of the situation usually suggest that replacement is the better choice. In another 10 years or so there may be enough older 4-strokes out there with lots of hours that someone will find a business in rebuilding them at reasonable prices; who knows?

A like-horsepower 4-stroke typically burns 1/3 to 1/2 less fuel than a carbureted 2-stroke at cruise; at idle the 4-stroke burns about 7 times less fuel than a carbureted 2-stroke. Fuel isn't getting any cheaper and neither is good 2-stroke TCW3 oil.

E-Tec (and all other "direct injected engines") is where 2-stroke technology is heading; and not at a price much lower that 4-strokes. So, it's becoming clear that the choice of motor will not be driven so much by dollars as by application. Walleye boats, bass boats, and sports boats are always going to benefit from high horsepower-to-weight ratio and DI 2-strokes will probably be strong in that market. In cruising markets the 4-strokes dominate and I believe they'll continue to do so.

For most folks repowering a C-Dory 22 the decision (a very personal one) has been made; they love the boat and want to keep it. At that point the choice is often made to repower with a 4-stroke engine as it's the last engine that will need to be purchased for the boat for a vast majority of folks (given that a 20-year lifespan on the engine is not hard to obtain). It also increases the resale value of the boat, which is a consideration if one is thinking of selling in a few years when it's time to 'retire' from boating (I dunno why, but people do it!).

So there's $.02 worth...

[en_pissant]

Hey Jason,

I just bought my 1987 22' Angler, with a '93 70hp Tohatsu for $13,000. It came with an EZ-Loader trailer, with surge breaks. I think I got a great deal on it, mainly because it was located in Montana, and there just isn't much of a market for the CDs there. It's really in excellent shape. I did have to drive 450 miles to go look at it, so just paid the guy then, and drove off with it. I live here in Kirkland WA, and I'm sure it would fetch a much better price in this area.

I'm actually from Juneau originally, and have spent some time on CDs there. $24,900 sound like a lot of loot for that boat. With that motor, I would think a price well under 20 would be more realistic. I'd pretty much attribute no value to that motor when offering. It could run forever, but it's still pretty darn old. There again, Juneau is a small market, and they like C-Dorys as much as they like Subarus up there.

A friend who is a boat surveyor thinks I got a great deal. He also made sure that I tapped all over the hull with a screwrdriver handle to make sure it sounded good.

You can always repower in the future. Here's the best price I have found on motors.

http://www.nissanoutboardmotors.com


Might be a little more to ship to Juneau, but when I bought a 40 hp for my skiff a year and a half ago, getting the motor on the internet was way cheaper.

Anyway, sounds like you are going with the newer boat, so I hope you end up getting a good one.