Trailer brake blues

[starcrafttom]

II have not installed new brake pads on my trailer in the two years I have owned it. I know bad tom, I just have not had a problem with them yet. Well I had time on Sunday to do maintance. I had two lights out and needed to fill the brake master cylinder and lube the hubs. I figure I would take a look at the pad while I was at it. Well the lights were no problem and adding lube to the hubs was easy. I crawled under the trailer to bleed the brakes and could not get the bleed valves to move at all. I tried wd40 and other stuff but no go. While I was down there I noticed that I had very little pad left on all brakes especially the fronts. I don’t have a big shop and had to take the boat off the trailer in order to get the trailer in to my garage but I would have to clean my garage first and that is a bigger chore at this point with the three or so projects that I have going right now. I decided that I did not want to do the trailer brakes myself and would take the whole thing down to a local guy and have him do it.
So I drop the boat off at the everret ramp, the shop I was using only has 9 ft doors, and ran the trailer to him. My trailer is a king ktb 4000 duel axial with disc brakes. I was told, even before he took off the wheels, that this model has inherit problems with over heating and not being able to push the cylinders back in. I am not sure that the shop in everret was looking out for my best interest, I have no proof they where not, but I have a good b.s. detector. After a short inspection I was told that the calipers were shot and that I need 4 new ones. I was also told that it was a bad design, which I now tend to believe. King has gone to a different unit all together. The new unit is a single piston unit that uses a vented steel rotor not a stainless steel one like mine. Changing over to the new units would cost me $1400. Well needing a $1400 fix on a trailer that is only 2 years old does not make Tommy a happy boy.
Well after a call to E.Q to ask for direction I called king trailers, here in Marysville, to see what they knew. I was told that the brakes are only under warranty for a year and no longer covered and yes they had had problems with them and had started using single piston units with vented rotors. I wanted to take my trailer back to them and have them give me a opinion to whether they needed replaced or not. They tried to fit me in but the shop crew had already left for the day and they could not get to me if they needed fixing until after the New Year. They did recommend Boat country here off the river. They are the local dealer and service center for King Trailers. King would also sell me the replacement units, not the new style, at cost. Boat Country looked at my trailer today and has told me that I only need to replace the two rear calipers and all the pads. This is still going to coat almost $400.
The main problem with the calipers is that the inside pads are held in with screws and if you do not check them often the pads will wear down past the screw heads and then you can not get them out again. You have to tape or drill out the screws and it’s easier to just buy new calipers. Also once the cylinders extend that far out they will not go back in and screw up the seals. Now you may be asking your self “didn’t tom hear those screws grinding into the disc?” well no I did not because they never did make a sound. So even if you have not had any problems with your brakes you may want to check them more often them me. I will now be checking those trailer brakes every other month.
What I can not figure out, other then the cylinders coming out to far, is how wearing the pads down to nothing causes the calipers to fail. I have warn truck pads down to nothing more then once and even had a disc crack and split in half . The dam thing fell off the truck while going down the rode, but never have I had a caliper go bad on me. I was told that the new units being used are more like car brakes. The pads are clipped in not screwed in and the disc are steel not stainless. If I had the funds I would have gone with the new units but it was going to cost $800 even at cost plus labor. I think the stainless steel units will get the job done. They will just have to get more attention then I have been giving them.

[SeaSpray]

Tom,

I have the same trailer 2004 model. I have had a couple of problems with my brakes also. I had one caliper that was not releasing completely. After bleeding the caliper it works better.

My pads needed replacing after about 7k miles. I thought about replacing everything with the new set-up but after talking with someone at King I decided to just replace the pads and when I have more serious problems then I would go with the new stuff. The brakes seem to stop just fine.

I bought parts from Champion trailers online. It was not expensive or to hard to change the pads myself. It also does not look too bad to change out the whole system when that time comes. It seems like I remember pricing the parts at $400 for a complete new system.

It is important to check your brake system frequently since trailer brakes seem to wear much more quickly than cars.

Steve

[Sea Wolf]

Tom-

Sorry to hear of your woes with the trailer brakes. Hope that the fix will be relatively quick and not too expensive, but these things seem to get out of hand and compound themselves.

I think the real problem is that most of us simply neglect to stay on top of our trailers, particularly the brakes, because of several reasons.

1. One is they're out of sight hidden behind the tires and wheels most of the time, helping us forget about them.

2. Another is that they're not much fun to think about, unlike downriggers, motors, and elecgtronic gadgets that pique our interest.

3. Then, too, they're hard to work on with the boat often in the way, also being down low under the frame and usually dirty, greasy, and often covered with caked on brake dust.

4. The few opportunities we do get to see them are when we're taking the trailer to the parking lot after launching, when we'd rather just jump into the boat and go or when returning, tired and ready to take the path of least resistance to get the boat out of the water and go home.

5. Even when rinsing the brakes off, most of us just do it and keep it simple and hurry up to sheat seem to be more importnt things.

So the result is neglect to the system, and most of us are guilty of it.

Probably the best cure would be to make a routine check of the brakes by making a checklist to be sure we do it routinely when launching or retrieving, and then to also check tire presssures when initiating a tow as well. Included should also be a periodic routine wheel lubrication and brake check on drum brakes, where it's usually impossible to see the condition of the linings and drums without disassembly.

Got to go.....will add anaything missing later.

Joe.

[TyBoo]

Tom, you got this one pegged alright. The Tie-Down Engineering brake system on the King trailers is junk. But, like you, I can't afford to replace the whole works right now. I have the same crap - busted a bleeder valve trying to loosen it; calipers stiff and won't easily retract; pads worn (in probably 3k miles) to nothing and the screw heads screwed. The only good thing about the system is that the calipers are easy to remove.

This time around I am replacing all four calipers at 65 bucks a pop along with the pads. I seriously considered pinning the hitch coupler so it wouldn't slide and going with cosmetic brakes only. That boat ain't gonna pass the big Dodge. I just called Champion Trailer to order the stuff, but they are closed until Tuesday. I might just get enough for one axle and plug the second lines (the kids broke me for Christmas - again). But I will probably do all four wheels and plan to replace the pads every year regardless of wear.

That guy who told you about the overheating problems is right. On the first tow with my new (2004) trailer I stopped to check things over at a freeway rest area and the rotors were hot enough to sizzle spit. I asked Les about it, and he said they would run cooler after they wore a little. They did cool down some, but not much. Oh well - the blue color of the rotors is pretty.

[TyBoo]

I do have another hairbrained plan I've been kicking around, but I'll wait until everyone is done beating the crap out of me for suggesting I go without functioning brakes before I share it.

[SEA3PO]

Years ago Ford had a problem with their calipers...sticking when they got hot...and burning out pads (especially the inside one)....what it turned out to be was the darned pistons swelling with heat....the cure was to install stainless pistons and that did the trick.... what happened was they would get hot, and the brake fluid would expand and cause the brakes to set.... and that just kept going until the rotor was blue and the pads worn out.... miserable problem.

I never did like multiple piston calipers, so most of the systems I built used single piston calipers on a floating pin arrangement....(my hot rod days) With marine application I would think the stainless rotors to be a must...cast iron would do badly in salt environment.... the calipers need to be cadmimum plated...and the pistons need be stainless.... automotive pistons are steel with a thin nickel plate.

Disk brakes have no residual fluid pressure in the lines when at rest, unlike drum brake systems.... the only thing that returns the pistons back into their bore is the rotor runout and the slight pressure caused by the square cut seal (between the piston and the caliper)

I also would use DOT 5 fluid (silicone brake fluid) as regular DOT 4 brake fluid is a dryer than air liquid (hygroscopic) and absorbs water... up to 2% per year...(time to change) then once saturated the fluid develops water globs that lay in the bottom of the cylinders and calipers and cause rust....(not so cool) Silicone fluid does not do this... plus silicone has a higher resistance to boiling (heat build up) and is a natural lubricant.

I still have the stock drum brakes on my 2003 trailer and would have liked disk brakes, as I am sure the drum brakes are worthless by now...but I question weather my 22' on a trailer really needs brakes behind my pickup that has great brakes.....

Just my take on brakes..

Joel
SEA3PO

[Sea Wolf]

Joel and All-

What do you think the best ready-made brake system is for a trailer such as the E-Z Loader, King, etc.?

Most discussions I've read before usually come around to Kodiak Disk Brakes in stainless steel, for the most part.

Another improvement, although at considerable expense, is to dump the surge system and go to electric over hydraulic brakes, with the controls plugged into the existing tow package in the cab . This, of course, eliminates the unnecessary drag and wear on the brakes when they're unneeded.

Is this all overkill, or..........?

Joe.

[Dora~Jean]

Joe, the survey must be right, I have Kodiak SS Disc brakes and SS brake lines (you have to ask separately for the lines!). I have a 2002/03 Pacific trailer which I specified these brakes, no problems so far, about 7-8,000 miles.

All this talk, I think I'll head outside tomorrow and do some check'n on my pads, been about a year since I last checked...

[Luna C]

I have the 2004 KING double axle w/disc breaks. In 05 I replaced EVERYTHING! I was not happy either! 95% of the time I sling launch my boat so the hubs have only hit the water a few times. Anyway, I have new stuff and a place that will back their work (KING, right down the street) was of little help. Since KING is a local product, I was very dissapointed. C-Dory has moved away this company as well.