Bottom Paint for Tom Cat?

[Doryman]

I'm keeping my Tom Cat in the water at Skyline Marina. A sailboating friend of mine recommended that I get the bottom painted. I've found a local shop, LaConner Maritime, to do the job for about $2500. After reading the archives on this topic, I am more confused than enlightened. How much of a negative effect does bottom paint have on boat performance? Does keeping the boat in the water lead to water absorption in the fiberglass (this strikes me as highly unlikely, but it was mentioned.) Any advice that will help me make my decision would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Warren

[drjohn71a]

Warren, Bob from Thataway prob knows more than I, but:

1 - Bottom paint provides several key functions. It releases chemicals that slow marine growth, and it acts as a sacrificial layer of paint than can be easily sanded and recoated as needed much more easily than the original gelcoat. Bottom paint is not totally waterproof and is designed to be worn, eroded, or sanded which will eventually expose the underlying surface.

2 - Nothing is totally waterproof. Gelcoat freely allows water absorption. Some of the binders in fiberglass contstruction contain water soluble molecules that can hold water, migrate, etc., and eventually damage the integrity of the fiberglass and/or gelcoat itself. Caught early, the damage can be repaired and prevented. Left to the elements, the damage could make the boat worthless.

3 - Epoxy coatings are among the most waterproof structural coating available. It is advisable to put an epoxy coating under bottom coating and to put both on any boat left in the water. This leaves you with an expendable outer coating with the extra protection of a water sealant between the water and your structural fiberglass components.

4 - Some of the damage mentioned on some threads appears to be only in the gelcoat itself, so the normal sanding, epoxy sealing, and bottom painting process would likely solve that and prevent damage to deeper structures.

5 - Leaving an unprotected boat hull submerged in the water for long periods, could put you in a situation where removal of the barnacles, etc., causes deep damage to the hull. If you wait until you can visibly see hull damage, it could be too late for an economical cure.

Summary - a prudent skipper would have the hull cleaned, sanded, sealed with epoxy and bottom painted if the hull is to be submerged for long periods.

John

[flapbreaker]

Is $2500 the normal going rate for something like this?

[drjohn71a]

I don't know about the coasts, but $2,000 to 3,000 is about the range here in the middle country. The first preparation, epoxy sealing, and painting costs more than subsequent coatings unless you let it go to where the epoxy coating is damaged. The expense is related to the labor, and the toxic nature of the coatings with which many marinas don't want to get involved.

Some ppl use an "ablative" coating, i.e. a soft surfaced coating that wears off with high speed use, or you can gently brush it with a broom, after drying, at the season's end. Here, we would only have to repaint every 2nd or 3rd year with care on cleaning. Micron CSC is a good ablative coating. I think those work better where moss and soft growth is the major problem, like warm climates. If you are going to repaint the bottom by yourself, ablative paints are the easiest since only a light brushing is needed for preparation as long as the coating is not worn thru.

I notice most of the C-Dories up there have a hard, black bottom paint. Maybe that is better for the barnacles. You could ask Jeff at the factory or any reputable marina up there for their recommendation. That is best since every location has slightly different bottom fouling problems.

John

[Alok]

We just had the our Tomcat done.

1. We paid about $2400, so $2500 sounds about right.

2. We had 4 coats of epoxy put on before 3 coats of the bottom paint were applied. As has already been discussed, epoxy is to prevent blistering; bottom pain is to prevent barnacles. Most people (including the C-Dory factory- I had discussed this with Jeff) advise applying the epoxy for any boat that will stay in the water most of the time.

3. We used Micron CSC paint. Unlike most others, this paint remains active if the boat is kept on the trailer for a while. Most others will become useless if the boat is hauled for more than a few days. Your yard people will be the best source of advice on this- different bottom paints work better in different areas. But please do get one that remains active if the boat is trailered.

Interlux has a booklet that explains all this stuff in more detail. West Marine should have a copy.

4. On my low-speed trawler, a good quality bottom paint lasted 2-3 years. On a high speed Tomcat- I have no idea. Since it is an ablative paint, my gut feeling is that it will rub off at speed and I will be repainting more often.

Good luck!

[drjohn71a]

Thanks, Alok, for the input.

My experience with Micron CSC is that the outside corners of the hull (the easiest areas to reach, thank heaven) lose the paint much faster than the bottom. As such, it is pretty easy to lightly brush the surface and roll on more paint on those leading edges for a season or two.

My big old boats would not go 40 mph, so as you mentioned, the higher speed TomCat might shed the paint faster.

As for me, I am thinking of installing a boat lift... but may have to bottom coat in the long run. The cost is looking to be about the same considering that the heavy TomCat would need an expensive lift system.

John

[jimmydj]

new tom cat i now have on hydrohoist lift.

had sea ray and spent many dollars, yes around 2400.00 every 2-3years.

on a lake in texas, warm water and calcium causes blisters here.

hydrohoist cost of 6500.00 for 8900 lb lift for tc.

we also have high winds on lake and lift protects very well.

coastal tide areas most use electric lifts that are cheaper.

i want a long term solution since i plan on many years of service with the tc.
take care
jim

[mikeporterinmd]

If you go with barrier coat and ablative paint, have the first coat of
paint be a different color than the final coats. That way, you know when
it's time to add paint. Generally, it's easy to paint over ablative paint, but
if you wear the paint to the epoxy, you might have to sand to get
good adhesion. I've seen people lose sheets of paint because they
did not get good adhesion between the paint and the epoxy. Best not
to repeat the process too often once you get the paint to stick!

We had a blue base coat followed by black. If the ablative paint
will adhere to a non-ablative paint, then the first coat could be
a non-ablative paint. You'll save a bit of money and it won't wear
off - but it won't provide anti-fouling after a while. I didn't feel
like taking chances, so I went with all ablative. This was on a
different boat. Haven't checked into what is on the bottom of
Shelly-IV. Something black.

Also, always paint with whatever everyone else is using (successfully)
in your marina. What I use in the Chesapeake may be totally
inappropriate for your area.

Mike

[thataway]

It is pretty difficult to get better advice than has been given above. Definately remove all wax--a de waxing chemical wash, with frequent rag changes. Sand lightly to abraid the surface and incease the binding of Epoxy--the layers of epoxy--best to use those specifically formulated for blister prevention, and then the bottom paint. l also use different colors--often put on three coats--especially at the water line.

I happen to keep my boat on a lift also.

You will only loose a few knots at the top end--and perhaps a tenth of a gallon in fuel economy. Loading the boat cost a lot more in top speed than bottom paint would.

The price seems fair--unless you want to do it yourself.....and it will take several days. Be sure you put the waterline high enough.

[Alok]

John:

Good idea about putting a coat on the leading edges each time we haul the boat (which, hopefully, will only be every few months). Easy enough to do, and should prolong the interval between a full paint job.

In addition, the bumps and scrapes associated with getting the Tomcat on the trailer in a crosswind also tend to rub off some of the paint.

I have just finished touching up those bumps and scrapes. A quart of Micron CSC cost me about $50, and it does not take much to cover small areas.

[Gene Morris]

We put bottom paint on our new Tomcat. It was a $1560.00 option at the factory. I was quoted $1140 from Fife Searay, however I didn't buy the boat from them. I did purchase from Sportcraft Marina in Oregon City. With barrier coat it cost $1500.00. I don't know if this price would be available if you already have a boat. I would call Ryan @ Sportcraft and see if it is worth your while to go South & have it done.
I leave my boat in the water for extended periods of time and the bottom paint is required. My other boat didn't have bottom paint I had to take out of water at least every two weeks. THen I also had to deal with chemicals/solvents to remove the stain. Reef Madness has now been in the water for 3 weeks and no sign of growth.
Gene

[SEA3PO]

I am on my second full day of sanding that darn blue bottom coating off...and I think it will take two more before I am again ready to put the barrier coat on.... that will take a day to dry, and then two coats of good bottom paint.... should do it... damm it's alot of work.... but being retired I can't afford the $3000 plus to take the ole paint off and recoat the bottom paint... it's not hard work...just long hours and really dirty.

Joel
SEA3PO

[mikeporterinmd]