Engines stalling?

james · Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 12:24 pm Post subject:

on the bright side...

no one seemed to reference my post anyway.

James

Larry H · Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 12:39 pm Post subject:

Wing Nuts!!!

Should not be used on batteries!!! IMHO

If you do use wing nuts, tighten them with a tool!!

Hand tightening wing nuts does not apply enough torque to the nut!!

(The above is from my many years as an outboard mechanic.)

oldgrowth · Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 1:08 pm Post subject:

Larry H · Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 2:19 pm Post subject:

Dave,

I don't know about Hondas, but Evinrude motors do not require a battery to create the ignition spark. The alternator (under the flywheel) has separate windings for the ignition. All that is required is fast enough rotation of the flywheel to create spark and compression. (And having the key 'on'. LOL) The battery is only for turning the starter motor.

Do we have a Honda expert in the house? Does anyone know if Honda outboard motors require a connected battery to start and run?

james · Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 2:25 pm Post subject:

i like to use nilock nuts for the terminals..

James

Sea Wolf · Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 3:45 pm Post subject:

Larry- Don't know about carbureted Hondas, but I'm guessing electronically fuel injected motors like the Suzuki and Yamaha (and bigger Hondas) won't inject fuel w/o enough electricity to operate the injector nozzle solenoids.

Maybe a can of ether (starting fluid) could be used to prime the intake manifold and bypass the injectors to get things fired up, but would the computer be dead until a minimum voltage was achieved, and would you have any spark at the plugs before that?

All the more reason to carry a booster / starer pack on board just in case! (cheap insurance)

Joe.

oldgrowth · Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 8:42 pm Post subject:

Sea Wolf · Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 9:27 pm Post subject:

Dave-

Good points. I really wasn't suggesting someone use ether indescriminately, but probably being a little careless with words.

I have used it to start both cars and outboards before, all without apparent damage, at least so far. I have, however, never used it in a diesel engine, as I've never owned one.

I usually just prime it a bit, either at the intake body of the manifold, or at the intake of the air cleaner, depending on the state of disassembly.

"Maybe a can of ether (starting fluid) could be used to prime the intake manifold and bypass the injectors to get things fired up...." should read

"Maybe a can of ether (starting fluid) could be used to supply fuel to the air cleaner and prime the fuel system to start the engine firing.........."

In fact, I'm don't think one could get the ether spray any closer than the air cleaner without disassembling part of the instake system on most modern outboards with their silencing and air filtering systems.

You make a good point, though, I've never really given all that much consideration to the relative combustivity and energy released between ether and gas. I'll have to look up their comparative numbers in the Handbok of Chemistry and Physics. Joe.

gljjr · Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 10:02 pm Post subject:

Great points Dave. I'll also add that when I was working in the automotive mechanics field that of the 10 car fires I worked on fixing for customers 8 of them were due to someone using starting fluid.... BE VERY CAREFUL! Smile

dogon dory · Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 11:31 pm Post subject:

Sorry, Folks - Post Deleted By Author

Sea Wolf · Posted: Sat May 20, 2006 10:01 am Post subject:

Now that we've agreed on the ether usage, how about the other question and a "new" one:

1. Will an electronically fuel injected motor start with a manual rope in an emergency (maybe should read "What's the minimum voltage necessary, if any, for a fuel injected motor to be started manually?"

and

How big an engine can actually be started manually?

I'll start soff the last one by saying I've manually started an Evinrude 90 2-stroke, and it wasn't all that bad a pull (!)

Joe

Sea Wolf · Posted: Sat May 20, 2006 10:04 am Post subject:

Oh, just remembered:

And Dave (Oldgrowth), do you think I wcould start those three 1450 HP diesels on the "Stealth Boat" on the other thread with just one can of ether?

Just joking, sorry for the funny stuff.

Joe.

Rabidfish · Posted: Sat May 20, 2006 10:45 am Post subject:

1. Will an electronically fuel injected motor start with a manual rope in an emergency (maybe should read "What's the minimum voltage necessary, if any, for a fuel injected motor to be started manually?"

and

How big an engine can actually be started manually?

Joe[/quote]

An Evinrude Etec can be started by rope... And, as big of engine as a guy can pull over...

A simple explanation of how they do this: The stator charges in series at low speeds. this creates higher voltage faster. This charges a capacitor that releases the stored voltage on the second pull. both the ignition and injectors are powered and the engine starts on the second pull.

Being from the Midwest, I didn't believe it. So as a test, I made the shop guys rope over a 90. Indeed, it started on the second pull...

Somebody out there is gonna say it's science... I prefer to call it magic! Razz

Craig

Sea Wolf · Posted: Sat May 20, 2006 10:53 am Post subject:

Craig-

Thanks for the answer/explanation!!!

Does this apply to other engines, esp. 4-stroke motors?

Joe.

Rabidfish · Posted: Sat May 20, 2006 11:05 am Post subject:

Joe,

I am not a Honda dealer, so I can't answer about Honda...

My experience with Suzy built Johnsons, and with Mercury, The ECM is powered by battery voltage. The ECM will not operate at less than 9 or 9.5 volts.(something in that range)

Therefore, you would have no spark and no injection at that voltage level.
On the other hand, if you had say... 10 volts and you crank the engine it may not start due to voltage drop from powering the starter. BUT... If you had 10 volts and could rope it over... It just might get you in, in a pinch.

Craig