Honda/BEP VSRs, battery switches

Not For Hire · Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 12:02 pm Post subject: Honda/BEP VSRs, battery switches

Although pretty new, I don't like the way the dealer set up the batteries, etc., so I will be redoing some rewiring in Not For Hire this spring. Presently she has two batteries, one for each 40 hp. I will be adding a third battery for the house. She also has two 1-2-all-off battery switches. I plan on using one of the BEP/Honda control panels that has two VSRs and four switches. The theory is that the VSR allows the house battery to charge off of engine one, two, or both after the start batteries are charged. The unit is the BEP 717-100A at http://www.bepmarine.com/showproduct.cfm?productid=515 and a PDF wiring diagram is available on that page.

Some questions:

The two start batteries may be paralleled for emergency starts but I don't think the house battery may be used for this? Nor does it seem that I could use a start battery as a back up house battery? If someone knows this because they have the outfit (Rollie?) (or because they know what they are doing) maybe chime in.

Since I will have the extra switches, what if I used one of the present switches "upstream" from the BEP panel to combine say battery one with the house battery only for emergencies?

I have a three stage battery charger in the boat that is connected to each of my current batteries with two outputs. If I leave it connected to both start batteries will it charge the house batteries similar to having the engine(s) running? Of should I change it to charge a start battery and the house battery? Or could I have it charge two start batteries in parallel and also the house battery? The charger is ten amp with two five amp outputs.

Thanks,

Valkyrie · Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 12:36 pm Post subject:

Mark,

I have the BEP/Hondan switches on Valkyrie and like them a lot. Theytake the guess work out of what needs to be switched to where and when I had my dealer add them othe advice of Les lamopman at EQ. Your best bet is to PM him for info.

As it turned out my dealer installed the switch okay, but ran the battery charger wire to the wrong switch at the helm, so when I threw the charger switch, the batteries got nada!

My Honda instruments are lighted, but I do have a red, chart light mounted to port at the windshield. I imagine it would throw enough light, but the gooseneck would probably bouce around unless it was dead calm.

One thing that I recently had installed was a digital voltmeter so I can easily monitor both battery condition and charging status.

I saw your comment on Valkyrie and Freyja. They are both sweethearts!

Nick
"Valkyrie"

Not For Hire · Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 1:48 pm Post subject:

Nick,
I remember your story with the airedale sleeping in the cuddy on Lake Superior. Now you have a couple of minnies.

Ken (CAVU) suggests my instrument wires were never connected, to which I say DOH and will check soon. I already have the LED light on a stalk, it came with three power sources, cigarette plug for cars, usb plug to light your laptop (for hunt and peck typists) and a three AAA battery pack. I can test it in the cig plug. If I like it I would mount and wire it permanently. It won't bounce around. If I get the instrument lights to work then I will use it somewhere else. As part of my electrical project I am also going to mount one or two more 12V receptacles on the port side so my computer wires, etc. don't stretch across the aisle, maybe another 110 on that side too.

Do you monitor all three batteries or just the house battery with your voltmeter?

What battery(ies) are connected to your charger?

And I have saved the pictures of your lovely canvas to show my installer, maybe next year after you give your season long review.

Mark Smile

Valkyrie · Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 3:11 pm Post subject:

Mark,

i have two AGM Bluetops, one in each lazerette. The voltmeter monitors both, but it can also accomodate a third. Both batteries are connected to the charger.

The switch has a voltage sensing relay, as you probably know. The start battery is charged to max first and then the house battery gets its turn. No switches to turn except both to on and that's it. Between that and the voltmeter, it's a no-brainer. I like that.

Valkyrie and Freyja are both Airedales. Val is 48 pounds and Freyja is 55. Missing in the picture is Val's son, Odin, one of nine Chrstmas presents she gave us on Christmas Eve five years ago.

You have a good memory.

Nick
"Valkyrie"

C-batical · Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 3:15 pm Post subject:

Mark:

Isn't it great to be thinking about boats again here in Michigan? I picked mine up this AM from inside storage. Regarding Honda VSR switches mine were installed by the dealer prior to delivery to me. I do believe that only the starting batteries are parallel during an emergency start situation. I think this because the system is designed to isolate the house battery during the starting mode to prevent spikes/surges that may damage electrical equipment. I also have a 3 step battery charging system. It is my understanding that each charger output is connected to a single 12V battery. Other than some very poor connections made by the rigger, my system has worked great. Originally, when the boat was delivered, it had a 2 step charging system and could not be used for a three battery set-up. It was replaced with the 3 step system by the dealer. I have Honda ammeters instaled to measure the charging output of each engine. They do not tell me anything about the condition of any of the three individual batteries. My battery charging unit though does tell me by LED indicators when an individual battery is discharged, 50% charged, and fullly charged. Regarding the use of of additional switches my only suggestion is to make you starting/charging system as simple as possible to limit any potential problems that connections/switches may add. This is probably due to my simple mind more than anything else. I am glad to see that you are thinking boat again. Hope to see you again somehere in this great "Water Wonderland" of ours.

Best regards,
Rollie/C-Batical

Not For Hire · Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 3:33 pm Post subject:

Hi Rollie,

You can't fool me you have had spring for weeks. It snowed here the last three days (but it is mostly gone now except for the big piles still sticking around). The local lakes are mostly thawed too and the big lake ramps are open even if the marinas are not.

I will pick my boat up soon. Then straight to my Honda dealer. You may recall I had them winterize the engines and they ordered two choke sensor valve thingies from Honda under warranty. In March they told me the parts had arrived. So I will have them installed and then hang around to see if the engines start right up after sitting all winter. That could be a test.

I think I got the VSR idea. I may switch out my two battery charger for a three battery charger, but maybe not. Seems like the two starting batteries should never run down if they are isolated from house. I will see if the charger will trigger the VSRs to open and charge the house battery when it is connected to the starting batteries.

Will have a pair of one year old 1-2-all-off switches for sale (models with keys to lock them in the off position).

Mark

Sea Angel · Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 4:38 pm Post subject:

Sea Angel here,
I, too, the HONDA VSR system for 3 batteries and two OBs. I love the simplicity and reliability of the setup. The only problem I had was with myself! I left my frig and autopilot compass system on when I had the boat put away in storage and on return 1 week later, the house battery was DED.

Each engine started fine with their 'start' batteries. The house battery was so low it caused my system VSRs to chatter till I got the engine RPMs up enough to handle the heavy charge load of the house. {Here is where the low output current of the HONDA 90s , 16amps, shows its colors.] This can be challenge if you have an extended distance to run under a no wake restriction... i.e., I took one out of gear, decreased electrical loads
and increased the disengaged engine RPM a little to do the charging. This took only abt 15 min for it to settle down., then back to no wake speed with both engines engaged and additional loads restored.

Cumbersome story, BUT did I say I love those VSRs!?

Sealife · Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 8:39 pm Post subject:

I posed this question on another thread about battery setups, and never got an answer......maybe someone on this thread has the answer?

My factory setup has two batteries, one for each engine, but just one BEP VSR, a starting battery switch, a house battery switch, and a parallel switch. This is normally a setup for one engine. One battery is a starting type, the other a deep cycle. The engines are twin 50hp Suzukis. My shore power battery charger is wired directly to both batteries. The setup seems to work, but does it defeat any of the features of the VSR? I ask because, recently, after leaving the switches on for a couple of weeks, BOTH batteries were equally drained. When recharging, both batteries show identical charge levels. Shouldn't the VSR prevent the starting battery from discharge? I can understand how both batteries get charged equally by having the battery charger connected directly to the batteries, bypassing the VSR.

C-batical · Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 10:41 pm Post subject:

Mark:

I only wish that I could hit the water now. My wife (The Admiral) say's no boat until I finish remodeling the two bathrooms I started a month ago. Somehow the time just flew by and now I am thinking more of boating rather than setting tile.

I would like to add that I really like the way my charging system is set-up. When I am not running, I leave my shore power plugged in and all three batteries are charged. When full capacity is reached, the charging system resets to a trickle charge mode to prevent overcharging. Though I don't need to, when I am at dockside I switch both starting batteries to the off position just to protect their charge. My boat is wired so all of my electronics, including refrigerator, are powered by the house battery. On shorepower, the refrigerator automatically switches over to 110V.

Please keep me posted on the repair of your 2004 Honda 40's for the cold starting problems that we both experience. I hope you are successful. It is a problem that has plagued both of us since we took delivery of our boats.

Mike/Sealife:

I am not an expert on these system by any means but it appears to me that the system you have is for a single engine installation. If so, then the deep cell battery, which should be your dedicated house battery, is probably not isolated as you indicated that it is used to start one of your engines. This may explain why both of your batteries discharged equally. BEP/Honda makes separate modules specific for single and twin engine installations.

Best regards,
Rollie/C-Batical

Not For Hire · Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 9:09 am Post subject:

Mike (Sealife),
There is some real good discussion from Les and others preserved in some older threads. Some of this discussion predates VSRs etc and it was directed at Hondas. However, my recollection is that each engine should have its own starting battery. So I presume yours are set up that way.

You should be able to parallel the batteries with the switch so that you can start either engine in the event that one battery is low. But otherwise the connection between the batteries should only be through the vsr. (And you only need the one way vsr since you charge both batteries with shore power). In this type of setup I think the main purpose of the vsr is to keep the "house" battery charged when you are running with just one engine.

For instance lets say that starboard engine is connected to batttery 1 and port engine to battery 2. Lets say that the house is connected to battery 1. If you are trolling with only engine 2 you want both batteries to stay charged as the house is on battery 1. The vsr should be set so that it opens when battery 2 is charging and some charge will also flow into battery 1. On the other hand if running only on engine 1 the vsr should not allow charge to flow out to battery 2. The batteries should only be connected through the vsr unless you engage the parallel switch. So if both batteries discharged and the house is only connected to one of them I think you have a connection between them other than the vsr?.

But I do see a real benefit to your setup with twin engines and two batteries. I considered this before I decided to go ahead and add a third battery since I was rewiring anyway.