Stainless steel finishes (?)

[Redƒox]

Anyone here knowledgeable in finishes for stainless pipe/railings.

My dilemma with my brushed (or lightly polished?) 304 stainless railings and racks, leave me wanting another option to a better finish. As it is; it took a few years for my hand rails I made (the non-welded ones) to resist light surface rust... never actually getting to the point of anything serious (it was always easily wiped away, and only in spots) but it took a few years of waxing and polishing with the same compounds and waxes used on the hull and cabin. Using a big 9 inch buffer, I just hit the stainless rails whenever I was doing the hull. Through the years; it is as if the 304 pipe became "hardened-off" or "seasoned-over-time" to the salt environment! Weird!

Now, my other stainless goodies, even the "mirror-polished" cleats had to be treated with a wax, to resist-better, "surface rust".

Here is what I am wanting for all my 304 pipe fabrication: Do what Baylinner did to some their new Trophy's --- give the stainless pipe a "bead blasted" appearance! Since I do not like Mirror-polished stainless on a sunny day (getting flashed by sunlight) I also prefer that unique looking satin finish.

What in tarnation do you use to get that 'satin quality" instead of a sand blasted surface?

Anybody --- ?

[Alasgun]

If available use 316 stainless and you wont have the minor rust issues. It is readily available as stainless tubing used for instrument air and lube oil lines here in the good ole oil field! Knowing you are an Alaskan, I would suggest Dowlanbach in Anchorage if you want to go that way. On to the bead blast thing. the glass beads are offered in a number of different sizes, you can go coarse enough to actually leave a profile on your parts like a prep job for spray metalizing or you can use very fine beads and achieve an almost white look. (very cool and popular gun finish) The problem is finding very fine beads sometimes. Try Weld air! On bead blasted surfaces I like to go over the blasted surface with grey scotch brite to kind of polish up the surface then wipe on Future floor wax as a final finish and this will give reasonably good service life before needing done again. It is actually a liquid acrilic plastic and not a wax. Above all remember that with the blast finish you are creating more surface exposure than a polished surface would have. This tends to cause the rusting process to start sooner but with some of the included tips you can overcome. Mike on Huda Thunkit

[UncleRichie]

Greg,
I have used silca sand , the stuff they use in sheet rock mud. You can get it at the lumber yard and its cheep. I use it outside and wear a respirator .
Might want to try it on a small peice first .
Richard

[Pete in NY]

Stainless steel is an alloy of iron, nickel and chrome. The iron atoms on the surface oxidize (rust). Passivation is an acid bath process (nitric acid or environmentally friendly citric acid) that removes the surface iron and leaves the corrosion resistant nickel and chrome. Your rails and hardware have become passivated to a degree with each subsequent rusting and cleaning and are naturally now more resistant to rust. More expensive passivated pipe rusts less. Passivated components of 316L are used in corrosive environments for this reason. Passivation also is performed after fabrication as it is a surface finishing treatment. Welding brings new metal to the surface that needs passivation to resist rusting after is performed.

Mechanical finishing to a standard 2B finish can be done with sandpaper but is usually applied with scotchbrite finishing pads. There are different degrees of scotchbrite pads available for making coarser or rougher surfaces. (Available at MSC.com on the www or likely your local industrial – metal working supplier)

But watch out! Bright mirror polishing makes a surface more rust resistant and rougher satin finish rusts more since with mechanical satin finishing you are creating more hills and valleys on the surface that are exposed to air and salt water. A passivated standard 2B satin finish may be what you wanted but passivating large fabrications after manufacture would likely be expensive. Mirror polishing and passivation has proven to be the most practical surface for rust resistant marine components of stainless steel.

[Sea Wolf]

Pete-

Very informative!

You might point out that it's not smart to try to polish stainless steel with regular steel wool or a regular steel wire wheel because they leave iron atoms on the surface that rust quickly.

As an additionnal note, here's how the term "electropolishing" fits into all of this-

http://www.electromatic.com/process.html

Joe.

[Redƒox]

WOW!! Excellent guys! this is exactly what I needed! Ya saved me time from having to look into it myself. Great example of team work! Now, are the "electroplating people" saying that stainless is made more "brittle" when pacified (?)

Three weeks ago, when Pirate Deb and I got back last month from a week on old RedFox in the sound, we got blasted with a winds so strong, every inch of the boat and railings got showered with a strong winter saline sea bath. I was impressed at the resistance to rust in my new top structure, but noticed some staining a few days latter, when I attempted to brush-off the dried salt crystals. The welds were just as good as the pipe material itself, and only in areas where the tungsten from the TIG welding got accidentally mixed-in, (oops) did it rust. (very few)

I sure would like to treat the top assembly in a bath like that... it would get into all the recesses in the design, that allows for the top plate to be removed or replaced.(one of the best design features for it) That is what got me to thinking a "blasted" surface.

I do use 3M pads on my little grinder. Between several different "grits" I can almost get that ultra polished (stock) look! but the time and energy it takes is an outrage! I think I am going to "Pacify" it, and I assume that "acid" can also be sprayed or wiped on (?)

From what I learned at AIH here in Anchorage; attaining a mirror-polish involves several different compounds! (that means tremendous time/effort I do not have----and I don't want that yacht look anyway) I did realize that a satin surface does create more rust potential, (cavities) but if Baylinner (and who knows who else) is doing it successfully, there must be a way, and I think stainless is so tough, I need not worry about making it more 'brittle'.

Ultimately, the finish I want to achieve would resemble what that "other" boat manufacturer is doing: the surface has a very course-blasted-appearance but also retains some shine! Probably better grip too (?) and the your grubby prints, far less noticeable, is wonderful too!

And one last thing to quack-about here, before I'm off; The larger creations I make (when finished, end up getting a little scuffed in places. Also there are areas where welds need a little buffing. The problem with a brushed finish --- getting it all looking uniform! I find myself going over every square inch with the buff pads, to achieve it, but never do to my satisfaction. Blasting would make it all look uniform (as would electropolish)

Uh oh... there is another thought --- the "bead blasted finish" I saw, looked as the process used something that would not shatter and leave scratches, upon application. I was wondering if there was any blasting medium like that, or will just plain sand do it up like that (I guess I will find out) and finish with an acid shower this time. I like the idea of the floor wax too!


I did get some 316 tubing the other day when at Dowland Bach for some of my other goodies yet to be made. What I was told there was; it is not as structural (rigid) as the polished 304 food pipe (!) and it ain't, the 304 resist bending more.

Thankyou for the great dialog! Anything else to add, I'm all eyes here!

This may be worth taking to a shop in town (if there are any) and seeing what options I have. Then again, I gotta be frugal and do it my self.

[Sea Wolf]

Greg-

Why not go to a railmaker and see how they do it? They're faced with this same issue every day, and probably have several finishing methods available depending on what the customer is willing to pay for....

How long before you finish developing the top and options?

Any idea about the price/cost yet?

How about shipping? Bring the boat to Alaska? Make the top in sections that can be slipped together and bolted after being shipped in a box?

Maybe you can take orders and run them down every 3 months or so on a flatbed, weather permitting? How fast can Pirate Deb drive the AlCan with a 25 ft trailer in tow?

Are your new shop/home/mom's retirement digs where folks can come to you with their boats? Will customers need bear guns? Do the ferries stop there?

Sorry if I'm getting ahead of the game- ignore any of the questions you want!!!

Joe.

[Redƒox]

Joe... your funny-as-hell pard!

I have figured the cost (materials and consumables alone, for both sections) to be about a grand! no joke... the consumables and even the electricity are kind of high right now. That is why I am looking into another way of finishing. A huge amount of the time was in buffing things out.

I have been telling peeps interested "about 4 grand" total, for both sections. (you should see the looks i get ) hehehe I suppose I could maybe come in a grand cheaper, if I can get the manufacturing more down-pat, and eliminate so much buffing - ug!

Our "moving" throws a wrench in the operation to! I don't think I will be making anything, if we actually find a place this spring, and are busy with moving. I will be in a place in the southeast to do this kind of thing! Also I'm looking into patents on some new inventions (reinventing) gonna be busy, but it beats "getting a hair cut and a real job" I'll announce here and invite our boating world to stop by at least.

If our readers are welcome to show fabricators my ideas and go from there if they want! I don't think a "hard top" is "patentable" (or at least worth patenting) a "transom rack" might be though, but someone else is sure to beat me to it! (I'll just improve it 15% and steel it back though --- HA! ) if ya can't wait, ya may as well look into gettin one made where ever you are. But I would luv to make them for peeps! I just don't see it happening for while yet. One thing is for sure: I am not going to change materials!! I am so happy with the economical and lightweight stainless thin wall design! and of course the aesthetics are #1!



Well, I still have not gotten to work today, having to do some clean up work on my stupid private site (I'm in trouble again over there) I guess I better not comment about loaded topics like "religion" anymore... I hate it!

If I forgot sumpin in this reply, just ask. I'll pop-in when I can... arrg!

[Redƒox]

Innerestin experience I'm having with trying to "pacify" the stainless... I went and got some more "earth-friendly" orange cleaner stuff, sprayed some newly brushed stainless pieces I was making with it, and it actually steamed! this was not from heat, I assumed it was indeed the acid eating out what little iron there was on the freshly sanded surface! not much 'steam' but I was captivated

Getting a happy finnish: I'm finding I like very much, taking some good old emery cloth, and blending it in doing that only. I followed with some fancy polish I got at west marine, and it is super duper gorgeous! look at my final finish below.



Also, I am certain I will go get some glass bead, and do the top portion with that method, to get all the crannies and recesses to blend in that way. So I'll have two different finishes!

I was thinking about "pricing" for the "C-Dory Nation" at large: Why don't someone submit this to a slave labor camp in China, and get your "RedFox Spot Hard Tops" at Wal-Mart later in the season! Put another American craftsman out of work, after all, the Chinese are very skilled workers and need to eat too. You can get for about 10 times less that way - $399.95

Greg

[oldgrowth]

I have to admit, it's looking good.

[Redƒox]

WaThankya son on the house .... no takers on the Wal-Mart idea