C-Dory seaworthyness

@ C · Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 4:20 pm Post subject: C-Dory seaworthyness

Hi Folks:
I am not currently a C-Dory owner. I have had four powerboats from a 17' bowrider to my current Trophy 2002 W/A. I do my boating in Bethany Beach, DE and occaisionally here near Annapolis.
Do alot of back bay boating and fishing with the occaisional offshore trip in OC or Indian Head River.
My question is, how would you describe the seaworthyness of your C-Dory's? If I go offshore in my Trophy, I have to pick my days well.
Thanks in advance. I look forward to learning more about these boats as I move toward becoming an owner.
Bill

drjohn71a · Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 4:23 pm Post subject:

Hi Bill, I think this topic was just discussed on another thread here last week or so. I don't know how to find it,thoug...

John

@ C · Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 4:37 pm Post subject:

I apologize if it was. I looked around and didn't see anything. If someone can aim me in that direction, thanks.

oldgrowth · Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 4:54 pm Post subject:

Bill - I am sure you will get several C-Dory owners with their experience and input on this subject. In the meantime, this was the last thread on this subject.
http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t=3272&highlight=

drjohn71a · Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 4:57 pm Post subject:

Well, I tried searching for "seaworthiness", brought up 694 threads! arrggh.
Basically the truly experienced seamen(women) are saying that the boat is capable of handling rougher seas than the user, but caution in weather is always the byword. one statement said,"There are alot of Bold Sailers, but no Old Bold Sailers..." Maybe those would be the words to search for..
John

Oh great, thanks for the help.

@ C · Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 4:58 pm Post subject:

Thank you, Dave.

@ C · Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 5:10 pm Post subject:

And John

Falco · Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 5:40 pm Post subject:

Bill:

I think the answer to your question is more than a "yes" or "no". "Yes" C-Dorys can run offshore in a "seaworthy" state. "No" there are days when I wouldn't take mine offshore, much less in Puget Sound.

I suppose you could pick the question apart, starting with defining "seaworthy", but this might get a bit tedious. When the going gets rough in my boat while underway, I wish I had (depending on course and wave/swell direction): a deeper "V" hull (for speed, manueverability and to ease pounding) and/or a higher/enclosed transom (as a hedge against boarding seas). Apart from these two factors, I think a C-Dory (properly outfitted and operated for offshore conditions) is as "seaworthy" a boat as any other 22-25' pleasure boat. I believe it is more solidly made than your Trophy (though I would take that deeper V every now and then!).

Suggest you test ride one offshore -- and then do it again.

@ C · Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 7:29 pm Post subject:

Falco:
Thanks. That is the kind of info I'm seeking. Be aware, I get tossed around in the Trophy too. And I'm not looking to defy nature by boating in foolish conditions!
Thanks

starcrafttom · Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 7:44 pm Post subject:

I think that the trohpy and the c-dory will handle the same amount of sea just in different fashions. The trohpy will handle the 2 to 4 ft chop at higher speeds then the c-dory anyday of the week but I find that the c-dory in much better riding in big swells then the trophy because of its ablity to plane at slower speeds. a deep v-boat does not handle well at slow to medium speeds in a falling sea and if you run full speed you are just launching off the front of big swells and getting pounded to death. C-dory will plane slow enought that you ride down the front of swells and dont launch off of them, but still go fast enough that you are not getting pushed around and wallowing in the swells. hope I explained that well. for a great all around ride there is nothing that beats a ABC or stabi-craft boat . no pounding no matter the speed or seas. Just amazing boats. but they start at $100,000 to get anywhere the space of a c-dory.

dogon dory · Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:21 pm Post subject:

Sorry, Folks - Post Deleted By Author

Sea Wolf · Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 1:35 am Post subject:

Falco · Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 1:26 pm Post subject:

Perhaps there is a difference between seaworthiness and seamanship.

The most seaworthy vessel ever built can be sunk with poor seamanship (shades of Titanic). Conversely the most unseaworthy bit of flotsam can, in certain special cases, be piloted to harbor with outstanding seamanship (see for example the 1815 survival story of the USS Commerce in "Skeletons on the Zahara" by King). Classic references like Marchaj's "Seaworthiness - the Forgotten Factor" appear to focus on design of the vessel, i.e., the "basics of keeping the boat right side up, the water out, the rig intact and the crew on board". Making a vessel "seaworthy" is what marine architects do and what surveyors check. Whether a vessel is "seaworthy" is the question they must answer.

As C-Dory owners, complete with unique insight (if not hard won edjukashun), I think we can at least attempt to answer the question (rephrased): "Can this boat, as designed and outfitted, keep right side up, the water out, the rig intact and the crew on board while operating offshore?" By in large I believe the answer is "yes", but also sometimes wishing for a few tweaks like higher transom and deeper V. Is the same true for the Trophy 2002 W/A (http://www.epinions.com/content_61758606980). By and large, I think the answer is "no". The Trophy lacks a hard top for one thing making it more vulnerable to boarding seas. My (albeit limited) experience as a Bayliner owner was also that the quality of the glass was thin/poor. Interestingly, this is reflected in the epinions link above. Quality of construction has a lot to do with seaworthiness. Other comparisons would be interesting, eg, behavior of the boats at drift, flotation capacity, speed (to escape or avoid dangerous conditions), fuel capacity, roll stability, steerage, recoverabililty from a broaching wave, etc etc.

Whether a C-Dory master knows and practices good seamanship is another question (and reflects the wishes for design modifications). At least a part of good seamanship is understanding the seaworthiness of the boat, including its limitations, given current and anticipated sea conditions.

ffheap · Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:31 pm Post subject:

Hi Bill,

On one Sunday a few years ago, I took my 1983 22' C-Dory back from New Bedford to Nantucket. The first part of the trip was directly into the wind and the Buzzards Bay chop. The third part of the trip was from Cape Poge to Nantucket. It was hairy. Estimated winds were from 25 to 35 Knots. I did just what was called for from the article of "Running Inlets" from an old (1965) copy of Chapman's. (They have since taken it out, which I think is wrong.) The trip across Nantucket Sound was with the wind on the port bow. The boat did everything I expected, but it was a lot of work. I would take the wave on my port bow, and try to not take it on my port side. Lots of steering with my right foot on the starboard side. When I got to the Nantucket Channel, I would run up the back of the rollers, and then slowly back down, and repeat, without ever going over the top of the wave.

During the trip, I would play with the gas control as needed.

Would I do it again. NO. But it is good to know that the C-Dory performs well in rough seas.

Fred Heap

PS. Try and read the article on "Running Inlets" in an old copy of Chapman's. Best article even written on running a motor boat in adverse conditions.

westward · Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:51 pm Post subject:

Greetings. All issues of operator skill and experience aside, this has been my exerience in Rosario Strait and Juan De Fuca Strait: My previous boat had a hull much like your Trophy and was heavily built (Glasply cuddy). Current boat is a C-Dory 22' cruiser. The Glasply was more comfortable and much faster in chop of up to around 3'. When the chop got bigger and/or when the waves were what I call "rollers" (bigger, more powerful, undulating, current-driven and when mixed with high wind sometimes scary) the C-dory is absolutely better. The Dory has a lower center of gravity and a flatter bottom, so it rolls quite a bit less. Both boats handle best at planing speeds, which I can almost always maintain in the Dory but would need to fall off of in the Glasply in big water. Too, the handling difference between planing/non-planing is much greater in a v-hull boat than the Dory. I remember times when we were picking our way through rough seas in the Glasply where I felt like the boat was at risk of rolling over. It never did and probably didn't come close but my family and I hated the sensation! If you regularly need to run long distances fast over 2' wind chop DO NOT BUY A C-DORY!!! If your boating zone has swells or rollers and you can go slower I can't think of a better 22' choice than the Dory. Mike.