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Salish_Explorer
Joined: 23 Sep 2023 Posts: 41 City/Region: Kingston
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Model: 16 Angler
Photos: Salish Explorer
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Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2023 1:33 am Post subject: Starting from Scratch on a CD 16 |
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Hi all,
New member and new CD owner here, looking for any advice from what is clearly a very fun forum. In a nutshell, I'm starting from scratch on an older hull that was a bit abused by the prior owner. My goal is to build the very best, most capable shore camping/exploration platform I can without spending my kids' whole inheritance, and capture some of that lovely C-Dory style!
Backstory: This month I paid $5,500 for a hull with a solid Yamaha 50 (4 stroke) - and the engine is about the only solid thing on it. The electronics were wired by someone who had no business changing a lightbulb, and from bow to stern the prior owner covered it with hardware mounted using mild steel fasteners and brackets - which have of course now wept have streaks of rust. The wheel bearings on the trailer were so shot that while the mechanic was moving it around the yard, one of the wheels all but fell off. And of course, like a cherry on top - they plastered a giant 'Gomakatsu' decal across the bow: Women love him folks, fish fear him!
So, aside from maybe a tootle out to Blake tomorrow, step one is a weekend with the grinder cutting all that sh** off, and then another weekend with the sander doing gelcoat repair. Thankfully she was a utility build to start with, so I have no fantasy of a boat-show result - just something clean and solid.
The mechanic tuned the carbs, replaced the steering and wheel bearings, and did a good walkaround with me talking through what the boat has in the way of systems (being slightly larger than most dinghies and all). The rest is up to me.
Along with the abrasive work, I'm planning to completely re-wire, add a large-format chartplotter, add a kicker/get-home motor, and add all new fuel lines with a Racor F/W separator.
Major Questions
Loading
I'm planning on setting padeyes in the center of the cockpit to accomodate strapping down one cooler and one gear tote. The full camping loadout will be that plus duffles in the bow carrying what I'd call a 'heavy backpacking' or 'light carcamping' setup - call it 120 pounds of gear, 20 up front and 100 aft. Is that overloading, with two adults and two little kids? Will the 50 still plane with that kind of load?
Range
What fuel consumption rate have other 16/19 owners found?
Kicker
For safety only, I'm planning on adding a kicker. The Yamaha 8 and 9.9 are the same weight (87 pounds): My impulse is to get a 9.9 high-thrust - a motor I know can push even my 9,000 pound sailboat through a stiff chop - is that overkill? What are other 16/19 owners using for kickers?
The Hull
I understand CD's have some balsa coring - is this in all flat surfaces? [/i]Topside only? Hull?
Are the voids at the stern foam filled or empty? Has anyone added watertight hatches for dry storage?
Systems
I'm going to forego radar for now, but having a sailor's distrust of a hull that won't self-bail, along with completely redoing the electronics I want to set up at least one direct-wired Rule 10 2000 GPH bilge pump. Any ideas on mounting locations?
Additionally I will be doing a large chartplotter, with separate sounder and VHF/GPS/AIS combo
Seating
I want to add at least one folding padded seat for my son - any ideas on placement/brand? A kind CD16 owner showed me Garelick folding jumpseats mounted to the gunwhales on theirs, just aft of the main seats, but they appear to not be made any more. _________________ --------
First-time C-dory owner; working on setting up a C-Dory 16 for maximum utility/adventure |
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Salish_Explorer
Joined: 23 Sep 2023 Posts: 41 City/Region: Kingston
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Model: 16 Angler
Photos: Salish Explorer
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Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2023 1:56 am Post subject: |
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I should add, one thing I will definitely be looking hard at, after reading about the stern drag issues some people talk about, is moving the battery as far forward as I can (at the expense of 10+ feet of 3 ga. copper :-/) |
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dotnmarty
Joined: 03 Nov 2003 Posts: 4197 City/Region: Sammamish
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1993
C-Dory Model: 16 Angler
Vessel Name: LIZZIE II
Photos: Lizzie
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Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2023 11:31 am Post subject: |
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As far as I recall, there is no stern drag issue on an angler, That balance discussion related only to the cruiser model. Leave the batteries where they are. As for adding a seat, I built at box with a padded cover over the portapotti
Some years ago I bought an angler in similar condition to that you describe. I had all the screw holes repaired and put a new trailer under it. The next owner really brought back to excellent condition. These wonderful boats never die, nor do they fade away. Here's wishing you all the best. _________________ MartyP
"...we're all in the same boat..."
Last edited by dotnmarty on Sun Sep 24, 2023 11:38 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Marco Flamingo
Joined: 09 Jul 2015 Posts: 1158 City/Region: Seattle
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 16 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Limpet
Photos: Limpet
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Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2023 11:33 am Post subject: |
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Two adults and two kids is basically loaded, IMHO. The Yamaha 50 (which I have) is about the max weight you would want on the transom. I had a Suzuki 2.5 on the back sometimes when travelling remote and solo, but I usually think that the extra weight on the transom is a penalty I'm not willing to pay. For local inland water, probably better to spend that money on a good VHF, a Towboat US membership, and regular outboard maintenance.
From what you have said about the PO's use of mild steel hardware, every screw/bolt installed is suspect. Fortunately, it's a small boat. Most important is going to be penetrations in the bottom of the hull (battery mounts, bilge pump fasteners, seat fasteners, pad eyes for a cooler). I'm not sure if the little front deck on the Angler model is cored. It is on the Cruiser, so front cleats, navigation lights, etc., can be places where water can get into the core and rot.
I've easily gotten over 9 mpg at hull speed, but I would figure just under 5 mpg for a loaded boat on plane.
I made sure that I could find smooth-walled hose for my Rule bilge pump. Make it as straight and short of a shot as possible. There's a picture in my photo album under Modifications. Install in the sump area at the transom. That area isn't cored on my Cruiser, but I'd be tempted to use an adhesive and skip drilling for fasteners.
We have used aluminum folding backpacking chairs onboard, but only at anchor, not when on plane. The dory hull on plane can go from smooth to a slapping bounce in a boat length. My back can't handle that without a really cushy seat. |
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srbaum
Joined: 30 Aug 2010 Posts: 894 City/Region: Portsmouth
State or Province: VA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 26 Venture
Vessel Name: Osprey
Photos: Osprey
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Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2023 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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For mounting things to the hull, like hold downs and wiring, I have had great success with Weld Mount products. My last boat's wiring and numerous times on my current boat have various mounts, for different applications. I had previously used this product for mounting items on ships and boats. Go to the manufactures web sit and take a look at all of the various fastener configurations. This attached photo shows a few mounts that I've recently installed.
PS, the product is expensive, so I store it in the refrigerator and it is still in good shape, after 3 years.
http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?set_albumName=album3482&id=Weld_Mount_and_Webbing&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php _________________ Steve Baum
Homeport of Portsmouth, VA
OSPREY (Ex Mister Sea) 2000 22 C-Dory 2010 - Sold 3/19
OSPREY (Ex ADITI) 2007 26 Cape Cruiser 2018 |
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Salish_Explorer
Joined: 23 Sep 2023 Posts: 41 City/Region: Kingston
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Model: 16 Angler
Photos: Salish Explorer
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Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2023 10:42 am Post subject: |
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dotnmarty wrote: | As for adding a seat, I built at box with a padded cover over the portapotti |
Thanks Dotnmarty.
One thing to clarify - my hull is pretty stripped, plus it's an early version - it says 1984 on the registration, but I am not sure that's exact. In any case, it has a totally flat bottom at the stern, and no splash well. Instead of a splash well it has a pair of flotation 'boxes' glassed into the hull on the front side of the transom, with a little cubby between them holding the drain and the fuel tank. There is no porta potty (nor any cutout for one) and no glassed in table/dash.
The flotation boxes are also seats, but they are going to be noisy, and also toally exposed to wind and spray, so what I am noodling on is how to get a seat for at least one of the rascals in the lee of the cabinhouse.
Marco Flamingo wrote: | I had a Suzuki 2.5 on the back sometimes when travelling remote and solo, but I usually think that the extra weight on the transom is a penalty I'm not willing to pay. For local inland water, probably better to spend that money on a good VHF, a Towboat US membership, and regular outboard maintenance. |
This is interesting. I see the logic - in climbing we say 'speed is safety' - but I also am hoping to be out remote a fair bit of the time, and the ability to self-resuce - or at least maintain steerage and keep clear of hazards while I wait for a tow - is pretty huge also. On the flip side, I suppose the ultralight solution would be oarlocks! Short of that, though, other 'outboard' threads indicate either 4 or 6, with a high thrust prop, as ideal.
If I do go for a kicker, any input on sizing - given that I want enough power to get home even against a bit of wind/chop?
Marco Flamingo wrote: | From what you have said about the PO's use of mild steel hardware, every screw/bolt installed is suspect. |
Yes, me and my friend Grindy the Grinder and his friend Randy Random Orbit are going to get together with the West System Sisters (Poly 'Poxy and Henrietta Hardn'er) and have a big party undoing all the bad stuff. Later we will invite Gillian Gelcoat to come by and clean up after the fun.
Marco Flamingo wrote: | I've easily gotten over 9 mpg at hull speed, but I would figure just under 5 mpg for a loaded boat on plane. |
Great info, thank you.
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Also great info. Question though srbaum - does this have notable performance advantages over 5200? I don't like the devil's toothpaste anymore than the next man - it's hell to get loose, but on the other hand it's known as a product that really (really) sticks. And being less exotic/more obtainable is its own advantage, I've found. |
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Salish_Explorer
Joined: 23 Sep 2023 Posts: 41 City/Region: Kingston
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Model: 16 Angler
Photos: Salish Explorer
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Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2023 10:45 am Post subject: |
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Side note/update - I will post some pictures as soon as I can figure out how to upload/link them here. |
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NORO LIM
Joined: 24 Apr 2008 Posts: 881 City/Region: Olympia
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: NORO LIM (sold 12/12/14)
Photos: NORO LIM
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Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2023 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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Salish_Explorer wrote: | Side note/update - I will post some pictures as soon as I can figure out how to upload/link them here. |
Send a PM or email to "cbadmin" (click "Membelist"at the top of this page). They will set you up with a photo album. Then search the site for tips on uploading - or just post a question for help if you need it.
Welcome and good luck with all your projects. Looking forward to seeing some pictures! _________________ Bill, Formerly on NORO LIM
2001 CD 16, 2001-2006
2006 CC 23, 2006-2014 |
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dotnmarty
Joined: 03 Nov 2003 Posts: 4197 City/Region: Sammamish
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1993
C-Dory Model: 16 Angler
Vessel Name: LIZZIE II
Photos: Lizzie
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Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2023 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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how to get a seat for at least one of the rascals in the lee of the cabinhouse.
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srbaum
Joined: 30 Aug 2010 Posts: 894 City/Region: Portsmouth
State or Province: VA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 26 Venture
Vessel Name: Osprey
Photos: Osprey
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Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2023 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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Salish Explorer,
First off do you have a name that you would like us to address you by?
As to the Weld Mount system, they have fasteners that have a texture on the back, to aid in adhesion. Secondly, went you put a dab of the two part glue on the fastener, mix it in place on the fastener, with a toothpick or other item. You can then fasten the fastener to a top of the cabin, or to a vertical surface and it stays there. Also the stuff is able to have a load on it rather quickly.
So, 3M5200, could be used, but you would have to support it until it cures, you would be cleaning up a mess and you would not have the fasteners that Weld Mount produces, that provide workable solutions for hold downs and have a back that is made to aid in bonding. |
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Salish_Explorer
Joined: 23 Sep 2023 Posts: 41 City/Region: Kingston
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Model: 16 Angler
Photos: Salish Explorer
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Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2023 12:32 am Post subject: |
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srbaum wrote: | do you have a name that you would like us to address you by? |
The handle's Flanders but my friends call me Ned! -- haha no, it's Tom.
srbaum wrote: | As to the Weld Mount system, they have fasteners that have a texture on the back, to aid in adhesion. |
The selection of glue-ready hardware is definitely intriguing, but the cost is a little extreme. I've used the "springy stick" method with a lot of success on other overhead glue-ups, and to me that feels like less of a hassle than mixing two-part anything, but maybe that's just my personal superstition talking. In any case, it's a great suggestion and I will look into it more. |
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Salish_Explorer
Joined: 23 Sep 2023 Posts: 41 City/Region: Kingston
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Model: 16 Angler
Photos: Salish Explorer
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Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2023 12:33 am Post subject: |
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dotnmarty wrote: | how to get a seat for at least one of the rascals in the lee of the cabinhouse.
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I got quoted $6000 minimum for a camperback by one canvasmaker yesterday |
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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 20988 City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2023 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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Salish_Explorer wrote: | dotnmarty wrote: | how to get a seat for at least one of the rascals in the lee of the cabinhouse.
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I got quoted $6000 minimum for a camperback by one canvasmaker yesterday |
That does seem a little steep for a 16, but the SS bows have to be fitted, and canvas measured, the cost depends on what thread and material is used. Probably one or two fittings to be sure it is perfect, and then installation...
There are alternatives of DIY, if you are interested, send me a PM for a non sewing way to do it. _________________ Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL |
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