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Engine height w/ Permatrim

 
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PhilR



Joined: 19 Oct 2007
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City/Region: Albany
State or Province: NY
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 19 Angler
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 8:55 am    Post subject: Engine height w/ Permatrim Reply with quote

My Honda 90 is mounted on the transom in the second hole down from the top and I have read that the Permatrim should not have water flowing over the top...mine does. Where have you other 19' Angler positioned your motors?
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drjohn71a



Joined: 15 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phil, Water runs over my Permatrims at most speeds, but they seem to work well. Was that in the instructions?

I don't know if I'd worry much about it if all works well.

John
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marvin4239



Joined: 06 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phil when I installed my permatrim I installed a SS prop at the same time. With the boat on the trailer I put a straight edge on the bottom of the boat and trimmed the motor down until the permatrim was parallel with the staight edge. At that point the permatrim was about 3/4" below the straight edge or bottom of the boat. I tested the boat and speed and rpm was a little slower than before installing the permatrim. I raised the motor one hole which put the permatrim about 1/4" above the bottom and the boat preforms well with no loss in speed or RPM. I don't really know if this is correct procedure but it works for me. My motor is a Suzuki 90 but I don't think that should make a difference. I've read with a SS prop you can run the motor higher.
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Sneaks



Joined: 06 Jun 2004
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City/Region: San Diego (Encinitas)
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

marvin4239 wrote:
Phil With the boat on the trailer I put a straight edge on the bottom of the boat and trimmed the motor down until the permatrim was parallel with the staight edge. I raised the motor one hole which put the permatrim about 1/4" above the bottom and the boat preforms well with no loss in speed or RPM. I don't really know if this is correct procedure but it works for me.


That's essentially what I had on the Jenny B, albeit slightly below the hull. It also made the motor trim gauge a snap to "calibrate" afer I set the Permatrim parallel with the bottom. I had no difference in speed or economy before or after installation. Stock aluminum prop, F75 Yamahaha.

Don

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Sea Wolf



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sneaks wrote:

"F75 Yamahaha."

Always a joker in the crowd, somewhere!


Joe. Laughing

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Sneaks



Joined: 06 Jun 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sea Wolf wrote:
Sneaks wrote:

"F75 Yamahaha."

Always a joker in the crowd, somewhere!
Joe. Laughing


Oh damn. Struck by the fickle finger of fate yet again. AKA 30 minute edit limit. Color me red.

Trust an old micro guy to spot it and a friend to rub it in.... Wink

Don
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Sea Wolf



Joined: 01 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sneaks wrote:
Sea Wolf wrote:
Sneaks wrote:

"F75 Yamahaha."

Always a joker in the crowd, somewhere!
Joe. Laughing


Oh damn. Struck by the fickle finger of fate yet again. AKA 30 minute edit limit. Color me red.

Trust an old micro guy to spot it and a friend to rub it in.... Wink

Don


Anytime, My Friend!


Joe. Laughing
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breausaw



Joined: 18 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After talking extensively with a Permatrim tech at Shipyard Island Marina I moved my Honda 90 up to the center hole. Now I’m able to trim the boat level at high cruise, and gain a little speed.
The underside of the Permatrim is parallel with the bottom of the boat now, but for optimum performance was told moving the motor up a little move would improve performance even more. At this higher motor location its possible an aluminum prop could cavitate, so switching to a stainless may be necessary.
But- By increasing the size of the factory cavitation plate, by up to four times. PermatrimTM reduces the chance for the propeller to create an air pocket - the cause of cavitation.
The guy I talked with at Shipyard Island marina thinks a stainless wouldn’t be necessary given the low performance characteristic and slower speeds of the C-dory.
This spring I’ll move the motor to the top hole, if cavitation occurs I’ll most likely drop it back down.

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2007 22ft C-Dory Triple J 2007-2012
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thataway



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Our Tom cat has the Permatrims running on top of the water at planing speeds. However since the engine is on a bracket, it is set higher anyway. The C Dory 25 has the Permatrim submerged. My plan is to move the motor on the C Dory 25 up until the Permatrim is even with the bottom of the boat (it is close to 2" below the bottom. The problem is that I don't think that I have enough "hole" room to come up--and may have to redrill the holes--that means filling the old holes. So it is more complex than just moving the motor up a hole.
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tpbrady



Joined: 08 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jay,

I'm in the top hole on my motor with the Permatrim about 1/2 inch above the bottom of the boat when the motor is trimmed parallel to the bottom. In normal running (less than WOT) the motor is trimmed down somewhat (the front of the Permatrim is higher than the rear forcing the bow down). I have run several props ranging from 14 pitch to 17 pitch and the only prop that absolutely wouldn't work was the 17 pitch. For some reason it could not generate the same RPM as without the Permatrim by a significant amount. When I trimmed the motor way up you could feel the Permatrim rise out of the water and the motor started cavitating immediately. The 17 pitch 3 blade aluminum prop (13.25 inches in diameter) was completely useless when operating with the Permatrim installed. I tried a 4 blade 15 pitch Solas and 3 blade 15 pitch Solas and they showed some degraded performance on the top end. The 3 blade 14 pitch stainless QuickSilver prop performed the best with the Permatrim.

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22 Cruiser Bidarka 2004-2009
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breausaw



Joined: 18 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Tom,

If cavitation becomes a problem with my stock prop after I raise the motor perhaps you’d be willing to lend me that 3 blade 15 pitch stainless solas again, Wink think that’s the one. If that salves the cavitation problem maybe I’ll opt for buying the 3 blade 14 pitch stainless Quicksilver.
You’re bound and determined to sell me on that Quicksilver, maybe Cabalas is having a sale?
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tpbrady



Joined: 08 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jay,

I'm not alone on the QuickSilver 14 pitch for the new Honda 90. Marc at Wefings thinks highly of it also.
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PhilR



Joined: 19 Oct 2007
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C-Dory Model: 19 Angler
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you all for the good info! I just checked and the top of the Permatrim on my motor is 1" below the bottom of the hull when parallel. I may try raising it one hole in the springtime. I'd like to try the Quicksilver 14 pitch ss prop....can someone give me the proper description and suggest a good place to buy it?
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tpbrady



Joined: 08 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phil,

I'm not sure my experience with the Quicksilver 14 pitch prop on a heavily loaded 22 will translate over to a similar experience on a 19 Angler. When I am light, I can get into the rev limiter on the motor if I trim it up too high. I chose the 14 pitch prop for low end performance and fuel economy when heavily loaded. I would think you would be better served with a 15 or 16 pitch prop on a 19.

However, if you want to try. Cabelas has it in their catalog. It's the only 14 pitch prop available for a Honda that I have seen.
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Yosef



Joined: 26 Apr 2022
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

marvin4239 wrote:
Phil when I installed my permatrim I installed a SS prop at the same time. With the boat on the trailer I put a straight edge on the bottom of the boat and trimmed the motor down until the permatrim was parallel with the staight edge. At that point the permatrim was about 3/4" below the straight edge or bottom of the boat. I tested the boat and speed and rpm was a little slower than before installing the permatrim. I raised the motor one hole which put the permatrim about 1/4" above the bottom and the boat preforms well with no loss in speed or RPM. I don't really know if this is correct procedure but it works for me. My motor is a Suzuki 90 but I don't think that should make a difference. I've read with a SS prop you can run the motor higher.


I've got a 1988 22 Cruiser with a 2004 Suzuki 90HP with the Permatrim ~3/4" below the bottom of the boat running an aluminum three blade, 14" diameter, 17" pitch.

1. What stainless prop did you install?

2. Any advice on re-sealing the bolt/motor junction at the transom?

TIA,
-Joe
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