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colbysmith



Joined: 02 Oct 2011
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City/Region: Madison
State or Province: WI
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C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Traveler
Photos: C-Traveler and Midnight-Flyer
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AIS isn't something to badmouth. It does have it's place on the water. I'm happy I have mine, and it has come in handy a number of times. Not just the receive, but the transmit as well. That being said, if someone asked me which is more important if they could only pick one, I wouldn't hesitate to say radar. No matter how you cut it, in the fog, until every boat out there has an AIS transmitter, radar will by far outweigh AIS. Assuming you know how to use it (the radar). Several times on Lake Michigan, and once on the Columbia River, it was the radar that saved my bacon. That's when fog rolled in so thick that visibility was barely 100', if that. And because I've used my radar in visual conditions as well, I'm familiar with it's operation and what it can pick up. Just my additional two cents. BTW, if I never ran or got caught in the fog, then maybe I'd put a little more weight on my AIS...Wink For now I'm happy I have both! Colby
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gulfcoast john



Joined: 14 Dec 2012
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City/Region: PENSACOLA
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C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Cat O' Mine
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We agree with Colby.

If you're going to cruise as much as they do, both AIS B+ AND RADAR is a good combo for safety and security.

Wow, if you could only choose one, we might choose AIS B+ and never venture out in the fog. Close call and your call.

Safe Travels!

John

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hardee



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
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City/Region: Sequim
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For me it would be a hard choice. If I never boated in the fog some times it might be a week hangin out waiting, or said another way, What makes the fog go away is wind, so I kind of prefer the fog. However, I have had times when the radar was the champ, and times when the AIS was the champ, so skip the DQ delights, make your own starbucks at home, and put the $$ saved into the coffee can at home until you can get the other half of the navigation safety package. Laughing

As a side note, on the new, doppler radar, the MARPA, CPA and TCPA are much easier to run and quicker to find. Takes some of the pressure off not having that AIS 2 click info.

Harvey
SleepyC Moon


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krc



Joined: 06 Nov 2017
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City/Region: SF Bay Area
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 5:58 pm    Post subject: Radar hands down... Reply with quote

Was caught in fog out on the CA delta between benicia and pittsburg. Not in the main channels though - so no commercial traffic. But tons of small boats fishing for sturgeon/striper (most just anchored due to the fog). Really tough conditions and what made me go ahead and get radar. If I had one to pick it would be radar. I know most of these small craft do not have any AIS.
With no AIS, I just tend to stay out of the commercial lanes anyway.
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hardee



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
". . . With no AIS, I just tend to stay out of the commercial lanes anyway."


There is a big difference in having "no" AIS and having the receive half vs the active AIS) or transponder. Having AIS receive is as simple as adding, or having an updated VHF with that function. Having the receive function allows you to :
1. Stay out of the way of the commercial traffic
2. Communicate with them to arrange passing so you are both aware of the situation.
3. See commercial and or big boat traffic and allow you to make as much clearance as you need for the oncoming wake (because you now know the oncoming vessel size, speed and how close they will be to you and when that will be.)

Just my thoughts.

Harvey
SleepyC Moon

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RobMcClain



Joined: 21 May 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with all the thoughtful points that have been raised in this post. With that said, I would like to offer what I see as another benefit to having the ability to transmit an AIS signal. I’m an old guy and will be doing a lot of solo boating in the PNW, primarily on the Columbia and it’s tributaries. I have kids that love and understand boating, but they still worry about their dad being by himself if something were to go wrong medically, or with the boat, that prevented use of the VHF or cell phone. Having the transmit capability allows your location to be seen by others, not just other boats, and that could be quite beneficial. When at home I often open my AIS app just to look at areas and see who is where. I watched Colby when he was cruising the Columbia not long back. So by transmitting an AIS signal, if my kids know my float plan and don’t see any movement and also can’t reach me, they can make an appropriate call seeking assistance (if deemed necessary), and my location can then be easily found. While I’m not worried about this, it does seem like a nice additional safety feature. I might not have thought this through properly so if I’m off base please say so…

Rob
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ssobol



Joined: 27 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RobMcClain wrote:
I agree with all the thoughtful points that have been raised in this post. With that said, I would like to offer what I see as another benefit to having the ability to transmit an AIS signal. I’m an old guy and will be doing a lot of solo boating in the PNW, primarily on the Columbia and it’s tributaries. I have kids that love and understand boating, but they still worry about their dad being by himself if something were to go wrong medically, or with the boat, that prevented use of the VHF or cell phone. Having the transmit capability allows your location to be seen by others, not just other boats, and that could be quite beneficial. When at home I often open my AIS app just to look at areas and see who is where. I watched Colby when he was cruising the Columbia not long back. So by transmitting an AIS signal, if my kids know my float plan and don’t see any movement and also can’t reach me, they can make an appropriate call seeking assistance (if deemed necessary), and my location can then be easily found. While I’m not worried about this, it does seem like a nice additional safety feature. I might not have thought this through properly so if I’m off base please say so…

Rob


AIS is VHF, fairly low power. It is designed for ships within a couple of miles of each to exchange location, direction, speed, etc., often at night and low viz conditions.

For others to see your position via the internet you need to be in 2/5 watt VHF range of an AIS shore station. If you're in developed areas, this may not be a problem. In remote areas it may not be possible to get your AIS signal onto the internet. I would not count on my AIS info to be on the internet in a timely manner as some sort of emergency signaling device.

If you are concerned about something happening to you and needing emergency services, a PLB is probably a better choice. For communicating with others in remote areas a satellite communicator like InReach is also a better choice than AIS (IMO).
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ssobol



Joined: 27 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

P.S. if you want something that your family can use to keep tabs one you, you might look into NeboLink.

https://nebo.global/nebolink/?v=7516fd43adaa
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hardee



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
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City/Region: Sequim
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Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ssobol wrote:
RobMcClain wrote:
I agree with all the thoughtful points that have been raised in this post. With that said, I would like to offer what I see as another benefit to having the ability to transmit an AIS signal. I’m an old guy and will be doing a lot of solo boating in the PNW, primarily on the Columbia and it’s tributaries. I have kids that love and understand boating, but they still worry about their dad being by himself if something were to go wrong medically, or with the boat, that prevented use of the VHF or cell phone. Having the transmit capability allows your location to be seen by others, not just other boats, and that could be quite beneficial. When at home I often open my AIS app just to look at areas and see who is where. I watched Colby when he was cruising the Columbia not long back. So by transmitting an AIS signal, if my kids know my float plan and don’t see any movement and also can’t reach me, they can make an appropriate call seeking assistance (if deemed necessary), and my location can then be easily found. While I’m not worried about this, it does seem like a nice additional safety feature. I might not have thought this through properly so if I’m off base please say so…

Rob


AIS is VHF, fairly low power. It is designed for ships within a couple of miles of each to exchange location, direction, speed, etc., often at night and low viz conditions.

For others to see your position via the internet you need to be in 2/5 watt VHF range of an AIS shore station. If you're in developed areas, this may not be a problem. In remote areas it may not be possible to get your AIS signal onto the internet. I would not count on my AIS info to be on the internet in a timely manner as some sort of emergency signaling device.

If you are concerned about something happening to you and needing emergency services, a PLB is probably a better choice. For communicating with others in remote areas a satellite communicator like InReach is also a better choice than AIS (IMO).


I agree with both of these views. However, an AIS track is not something I would rely on If I had an issue with getting a VHF transmission out. I have been in areas where there was no VFH signal, WX or CG or VTS. Yes, I still transmitted the AIS signal but have no idea if anyone was receiving it. If there had been some sort of emergency, I do carry a PLB for that reason. Right now, I am tracing Sandy on his around Vancouver Island trip. He is using the InReach device and even in areas where there is no phone, internet or VHF reception, I have been able to check in on his track and message through the InReach. For a solo traveler, that has got to provide some peace of mind.

Keep in mind, these are different devices for different situations and there is only very minimal overlap and that is not reliable enough.

Harvey
SleepyC Moon

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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With the B+ transmitter, you have a pretty good chance of being picked up on the AIS satellites. Not so much with the plain B GPS.

I agree with Spot or InReach being preferable for tracking. I have found Nebro to be rather glitchy,. I have been trying to follow a boat for about 4 months and it really has been more miss than hit. But it is a cheap way to allow others to track you.

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Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
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colbysmith



Joined: 02 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lot of good comments. I do want to say, in reference to what Rob wrote, I too look at the advantage of AIS for my wife to be able to follow me in certain waters. When up at Isle Royale NP, which is pretty much off the grid, she was able to track my AIS everywhere except for a very short distance between Grand Portage and Wendigo. I also like knowing that if I go down somewhere in most navigable waters, there will be a trace of me somewhere, as most are covered by land stations. Now maybe not all will provide my tracking as a free service on some of the internet sites, but that doesn't mean my track isn't available. There are areas that my lower class of AiS may not be watched, but most the big waters I frequent, it is. Again, I just consider it another useful benefit. Colby
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RobMcClain



Joined: 21 May 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I appreciate the feedback regarding the safety tracking aspect. For the record, I should clarify I have no health issues and I’ve been boating for 50+ years. I have tracked friends who cruise the lower Columbia and had very good success and accuracy doing so. With this said, the points raised regarding the safety aspect are very well taken and appreciated. I would not want AIS transmission to be my lifeline, nor would I install it for that reason. I just see it as another of the many ancillary benefits for doing so. To date, it seems most areas of the navigable lower Columbia and Willamette Rivers have very good reception. I know if I ever take the boat back into the more remote areas of the PNW that can well be a different story.

Rob
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