The C-Brats Forum Index
HomeForumsMy TopicsCalendarEvent SignupsMemberlistOur C-DorysThe Brat MapPhotos

B+/B2 ais
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The C-Brats Forum Index -> Boating Safety
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
MaxDad



Joined: 12 Apr 2022
Posts: 5
City/Region: Ellwood City
State or Province: PA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Resilience
PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:58 pm    Post subject: B+/B2 ais Reply with quote

Hello everyone. First post here so hoping for the best. I have a 25 and would like to add the 5 watt ais system. That’s easy enough if you write a check but I’m hoping to get it internal to a vhf radio. I haven’t found any. Are they out there? Should I just get the separate units? I will be attempting (key word there) to link it all to my garmin chartplotter via nmea2k. Thanks.
_________________
Jim Kennedy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
ssobol



Joined: 27 Oct 2012
Posts: 3362
City/Region: SW Michigan
State or Province: MI
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: SoBELLE
Photos: SoBelle
PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2022 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you want to transmit AIS or just receive AIS info from others?

There are a number of VHF fixed mount radios that receive AIS and can display on a plotter.

There are starting to be VHF radios with AIS transmit. B&G V60-B is one (~$1200).

https://www.passagemaker.com/trawler-news/first-ever-vhf-radio-to-allow-send-receive-ais

There are other AIS capable VHF radios they can control an AIS xmitter, but the AIS transmitter is a separate unit.

Usually, these installations require two antennas.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20778
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2022 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim,
I would just get the separate AIS B+ unit. (We covered the difference between B and B+ in another post--but the B+ has higher power, adjusts frequency of updates according to boat speed, and have regular time slots.)

B + is "Self Organised Time Division Multiple Access" (SOTDMA), which enables them to negotiate with other Class A transponders to reserve a time slot and book future ones. Class B transponders use a different technology called Carrier Sense Time Division Multiple Access (CSTDMA) and only transmit when there is an opening.

I advocate a dedicated antenna which is turned to the AIS channel specifically. Although the splitters appear to work, there will be times that there would be loss of the AIS when transmitting on the VHF.

_________________
Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
MaxDad



Joined: 12 Apr 2022
Posts: 5
City/Region: Ellwood City
State or Province: PA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Resilience
PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2022 4:45 pm    Post subject: B+/b2 ais Reply with quote

First, this is such a unbelievably helpful site. Kudos to all who contribute. I feel like part of a community. Second, I do want to transmit as well as receive. I was caught out in some fog recently and while I knew where I was and knew I was reasonably safe, it sold me on the ais idea. I think I’ll get the separate units. Even the B & G unit for $1200 only transmitted at the lower 2 watt level. While I’m inquiring about things, do folks find that 2 minute playback feature on some vhfs to be helpful. I’m mostly boating by myself so I may be distracted when something gets said. Seems like I just answered my own question. Again thanks to everyone’s efforts in keeping this site alive and vibrant.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20778
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2022 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have never used a "playback" feature on a VHF, but I can imagine some usefulness. If there is an emergency, I want to hear the full conversation, and in many urgent situations, the GC takes the parties off VHF channel 16 to channel 22.

Also I almost always have 2 VHF radios on at a time. One could be a handheld. I had a situation where there was a "security" announcement on each side of a narrow stretch of ICW. I transmitted on 16, while the tug transmitted on 13, and visa versa, so that neither of us knew the other was coming to this narrow place. My boat was 62' long with 7' draft, and the tug was pushing a barge. I had to back up a few hundred yards (single screw sailboat) and put the boat as close to the shoal area as I could, so the tug and barge could squeeze by. It would have been much better to have either waited, or pulled out in a wider section of the ICW. Also when in the area with gill netters or some other fishing boats--I can still keep my watch on 16 and communicate on at working channel.

Unfortunately not all working boats keep their AIS on, I saw a couple of tugs on radar on the Mississippi River which did not have AIS running one foggy morning. So radar is also a very good thing to have. Also a good radar should pick up small images, even kayaks, (not always). In any case we always go slow in poor visability.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
colbysmith



Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Posts: 4523
City/Region: Madison
State or Province: WI
C-Dory Year: 2009
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Traveler
Photos: C-Traveler and Midnight-Flyer
PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2022 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
First, this is such a unbelievably helpful site. Kudos to all who contribute. I feel like part of a community. Second, I do want to transmit as well as receive. I was caught out in some fog recently and while I knew where I was and knew I was reasonably safe, it sold me on the ais idea. I think I’ll get the separate units.


First, I think many times it's best not to put all your eggs in one basket. IE, if the main unit goes bad, you lose everything in it. AIS transceivers are small enough and take up very little room. And can be connected via NMEA 2000 or the older tiny wire system to your chartplotter so as to show targets on it. I think you'll be paying less for an AIS transceiver and VHF radio separately, than one combined unit.

I hear you about the fog. I like transmitting AIS so the larger commercial boats can see me on the rivers and Great Lakes. And for following by others that have receivers. AIS was very useful for me several years ago on the Columbia River when I was in the lead of several other boats traveling in the fog around Portland. It also came in handy in June when I was back on the Columbia, to track some very large military vessels heading to the festival in Portland. And I've used it numerous times on the Mississippi River. However, just two days ago I had fog roll in with very poor visibility. (100 ft). I was out on Lake Michigan fishing with about a dozen other boats. Most of which did not have radar, and none that had AIS showing. It was my own radar that helped me navigate around them. Which also brings up, know how to use your radar. Use it during good visibility times as well, and don't be afraid to play with the various tuning knobs on it. In this particular situation, my Radar was my best electronic. (I doubt most those other boats had any AIS receivers either.) AIS is a great tool, but not something I would bet my life on. Colby
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
zuunami



Joined: 10 Aug 2021
Posts: 223
City/Region: Fort Bragg
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 16 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Oh Buoy!
Photos: zuunami
PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2022 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

good points colbysmith, I think if we didn't have a dinky 16' and were in a more heavily trafficked area, we would have radar over ais
_________________
Karen W. and Robert R.- Fort Bragg, CA - Oh Buoy!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
starcrafttom



Joined: 07 Nov 2003
Posts: 7878
City/Region: marysville
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1984
C-Dory Model: 27 Cruiser
Vessel Name: to be decided later
Photos: Susan E
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
n Lake Michigan fishing with about a dozen other boats. Most of which did not have radar, and none that had AIS showing.


Always radar first over AIS. Radar will show you what is close to you and that is what is going to hit you first. Why put your faith in others having AIS or radar when you can have radar that shows every thing with in a mile.? Ais is nice but only as a back up to radar or as a long distance looking glass.

I have seen fishing boats going 40 in the fog on my radar and stopped so they could go by, they were looking as their chart plotter with no radar. I have gone around kayaks I have seen on radar in the fog. I even use radar in the bright sun when its in my eyes and I can not see in the glare, thats a good but seldom used uses for radar.

The best use for AIs is to track whale boats and fishing guides from home on days I cant go fishing.

_________________
Thomas J Elliott
http://tomsfishinggear.blogspot.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
ssobol



Joined: 27 Oct 2012
Posts: 3362
City/Region: SW Michigan
State or Province: MI
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: SoBELLE
Photos: SoBelle
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

colbysmith wrote:
... I hear you about the fog. I like transmitting AIS so the larger commercial boats can see me on the rivers and Great Lakes. ...


In the fog, it's not the big boats/ships I worry about. It's the other numbnuts out there with smaller boats that you have to watch out for. They are unlikely to be receiving or transmitting AIS and are more likely to be doing stupid things in the fog.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
colbysmith



Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Posts: 4523
City/Region: Madison
State or Province: WI
C-Dory Year: 2009
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Traveler
Photos: C-Traveler and Midnight-Flyer
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
In the fog, it's not the big boats/ships I worry about. It's the other numbnuts out there with smaller boats that you have to watch out for. They are unlikely to be receiving or transmitting AIS and are more likely to be doing stupid things in the fog.


Like fishing right in front of the narrow harbor opening!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
MaxDad



Joined: 12 Apr 2022
Posts: 5
City/Region: Ellwood City
State or Province: PA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Resilience
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The value of shared experience. You have changed my thinking. Radar first. Thegarmin 18 inch seems reasonably priced. Any thoughts? I am completely inexperienced with radar…
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
MaxDad



Joined: 12 Apr 2022
Posts: 5
City/Region: Ellwood City
State or Province: PA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Resilience
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually the radar is the big part of my thinking but I also found a vender of a new icon m506 vhf. It receives ais so I can get half way there. Thanks for taking the time for all the replies so far…
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
zuunami



Joined: 10 Aug 2021
Posts: 223
City/Region: Fort Bragg
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 16 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Oh Buoy!
Photos: zuunami
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The best use for AIs is to track whale boats and fishing guides from home on days I cant go fishing.


Starcrafttom - what an excellent idea Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
hardee



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 12632
City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MaxDad wrote:
Actually the radar is the big part of my thinking but I also found a vender of a new icon m506 vhf. It receives ais so I can get half way there. Thanks for taking the time for all the replies so far…


MaxDad, You hit the nail on the head. Yes, Radar (Use as described above, use it and keep it on so you can understand what you see on the screen and how it relates to what is around you.

Also, cheap and easy, a radar reflector. The 10 inch round disc increased your radar return by about 50%.

The ICOM, M-506 is my favorite VHF for having multiple plusses. The last call, 2 minute record feature, (which I have used several times as an advantage to situational awareness), the AIS receive, the hailer/auto fog horn and all that with a very easy, user friendly menu function. With the NEMA 2K you sill be able to put the AIS targets onto your Garmin screen and that makes life way easier. (BTW, the M-506 also has the largest screen IF you are going to use that screen for monitoring AIS targets.)

Tom is right, the radar will pick up the closets hazards to you, and they can be immediate threats, BUT, the AIS will pick up the biggest targets, and they an cover a fair distance very quickly, and can be equally or more so, deadly. AIS and Radar are the winning hand.

Harvey
SleepyC Moon


_________________
Though in our sleep we are not conscious of our activity or surroundings, we should not, in our wakefulness, be unconscious of our sleep.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
starcrafttom



Joined: 07 Nov 2003
Posts: 7878
City/Region: marysville
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1984
C-Dory Model: 27 Cruiser
Vessel Name: to be decided later
Photos: Susan E
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zuum call your congress member and demand that all fishing charters require AIS, you know for safety. Laughing

All the digital radars are pretty good now. hell in comparison to 20 years ago they are magic. I like to use mine as a over lay on my chart plotter. Not as a stand alone screen. Just have to look at one screen that way and it helps you to learn what you are looking at.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The C-Brats Forum Index -> Boating Safety All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
     Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum



Page generation time: 0.1168s (PHP: 71% - SQL: 29%) - SQL queries: 33 - GZIP disabled - Debug on