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Advice on adding radar, updating electronics
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Peter & Judy



Joined: 03 Dec 2014
Posts: 546
City/Region: Olds
State or Province: AB
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Mistaya
Photos: Mistaya
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2022 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yesterday it was like Christmas. My new Raymarine system arrived and I unpacked all the parcels. My 2005 22' cruiser still had the original Raymarine C80 system and radar. Everything still worked, but like an old computer, the system was awkward and slow to use compared to new systems. I looked over a number of systems and decided to go with the Raymarine Axiom+ system along with the Quantum 2 Doppler Radar. I hope to keep this boat for at least 10 more years, so I decided to do a full upgrade on the electronics now, rather than risk them failing when I am boating in some remote region off the coast of BC or Alaska. It seemed easier to replace the whole system, rather than try to mix and match old and new components.

As this thread is on Radar, I rarely need it, but when I do need it, it is essential. Last summer we departed from Alert Bay, BC and were headed back to Alder Bay, we were completely blind in the fog. The chart plotter and iPad backup gave us the route to follow, but it was like skiing in a whiteout. I turned on the foghorn that we have attached to the Standard Horizon GX2200 VHF and headed off into the mist. With the radar on and all eyes wide open. I saw the breakwater for the marina on the radar long before I saw it with my eyes. This convinced me that a radar on the west coast is essential and I was happy to have it. I am hopping that my new radar is even better and will increase my safety over the long term.

When deciding on the system, I had the option of having the radar connected with a cable or wifi. I discussed this with Tony, my tech at Binnacle Marine in Nova Scotia and his opinion was that with a cable you have a physical connection as opposed to a wifi connection and radio interference is less likely. This mirrored my opinion with other electronics that sometimes do not like to talk to each other as with computers and wifi printers. So I did opt for the cable connection.

I'll post future updates on my progress installing the new system once the weather is warm enough here in Alberta to work on the boat. Our test cruise will be in and around Kittimat and Prince Rupert in June.

_________________
Peter & Judy Haase
Buffalo Horn Ranch

HMCB Mistaya
"Mistaya" (Grizzly Bear in Cree)
HMCB (Her Majesties Cute Boat)
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hardee



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 12632
City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2022 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Merry Christmas Peter & Judy. Enjoy. I love my radar, and like yours, it will be new and a bit different but by all means still essential.

Harvey
SleepyC Moon


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Though in our sleep we are not conscious of our activity or surroundings, we should not, in our wakefulness, be unconscious of our sleep.
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itiming



Joined: 28 Apr 2020
Posts: 50
City/Region: Iron River
State or Province: WI
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Obsession
Photos: Obsession
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2022 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Took a month to decide on new electronics, which allow adding radar.

Doppler moving target, radar overlay, and reliable network connection are the most highly recommended features to look for. All the recommended systems are a big step up in features (and price-learning how expensive a boat unit is). Our local marine supply store (Duluth, MN) and our local marina (Washburn, WI) both advised going with what they most commonly spec for my application -- Garmin. Other radars had similar, or better features, depending; but we have been well served by our local suppliers.

The Garmin Fantom 18x is up to 50 watt, with motionscope, chart overlay, power-saving/time transmit/variable rpm (up to 60 rpm), and also dual-range (split screen side by side to see both close and long range, at the same time). Not sure how much/often I'll use it -- gives me something to work through went the coho bite stops.

Many recommendations for two screens. I compared two 9 in screens at 1280x720 each, vs one 10 in screen at 1920x1200. I went with the single screen, due to its much higher total resolution/pixel count and size. It is only 1/4 in wider and 2.4 in higher than the old Standard Horizon it replaces. For now, I'll keep my Raymarine 7 in. stand alone fish finder for redundancy and navionics charts/waypoints-at least till I get the new setup installed and operating. My guess is most others would select two new screens for the price of the higher resolution single screen. I do plan to use a tablet (already mounted overhead) for Active Captain helm control and routing. Its remote control/portability is more useful to me than trying to fit in another screen an already crowded helm.

I much appreciate all the advice this forum has provided. It was difficult to spend so much to gain radar. It will be appreciated when we return to Isle Royale NP, this time in a boat, rather than ferrying our kayaks across. Of course this is a boat, the new electronics are just a downpayment on all the other things that can now be added.

Also, a shout-out to Jack Spear, the prior owner. He kept this 2008 boat in such great condition--with all his changes being high quality improvements. With boat in such nice shape, made the upgrade decision easier. My financial advisor agreed. His advice is: spend it before its all gone. . .

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Chuck Olson

Obsession 2008, 22 Cruiser, Twin Honda 40hp

[/img]http://www.c-brats.com/albums/album3157/C_Dory_ObsessionLacLaBelle.thumb.jpeg[img]
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hardee



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 12632
City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2022 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Chuck, I don't know your financial advisor, but he thinks somewhat like mine ---> spend it for something you can and will use now while you can. Yes, it was a big decision to spend those boat units, but, the new, upgraded electronics are better in many ways. And, if you ever get into fog so thick you cannot see the water, you will thank yourself (several times) that you had the foresight to make that investment into your future safety.

Enjoy.

Harvey
SleepyC Moon
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starcrafttom



Joined: 07 Nov 2003
Posts: 7878
City/Region: marysville
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1984
C-Dory Model: 27 Cruiser
Vessel Name: to be decided later
Photos: Susan E
PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2022 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
replace the 2 existing plotters with a single, high resolution 12 in or 10 in MFD—by using the laptop for chart or radar, is this enough screen space to provide at least 3 different views?


Coming here late but here's my two cents. I really don't think there is a bad system out there. Go with what features you like but most have all the same features these days. So go with the most for the least money.

I will say this you no longer need two screens unless you want two and you dont need two MFDs as most new units are wireless and you can use a simple pad for a second screen on the back deck , on the dash or in the hands of the first mate. Far more cost effective.

All units now have radar over lay and that is all I use when looking at radar. It gives you a simple complete image in one place and you do not need to split your screen. In fact i would say that splitting your screen is counter productive and waste time and lowers you detail ( size) of image.

I am still using my old raymarine c80 system inside the boat but a simrad on the back deck. I will be looking to change the whole system and add auto pilot in the near future. Been saying that for 4 years now and the old system just keeps working. Hell I have an entire extra c80 in the garage. Need to sell that.

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Thomas J Elliott
http://tomsfishinggear.blogspot.com/
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itiming



Joined: 28 Apr 2020
Posts: 50
City/Region: Iron River
State or Province: WI
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Obsession
Photos: Obsession
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2022 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To wrap up this thread, I posted picts of my now installed Radar & MFD updates in my photos album--and am adding a few comments after some experience with the new equipment.

The radar dome sits on a 5 inch stainless SeaView mount over a 4 degree wedge, so about 6 inches above the roof. I decided to use a low mount to keep the radar low when trailering, but still lift it above the roof and hailer. A much higher mount would add a little to radar distance, and much more for other roof cargo, and, of course to cost. I envy those with the nice radar arches, but too much 'overhead' for me at this time.

http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?set_albumName=album3437&id=RadarDome&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php

Radar:
So far, the radar has displayed all the vessels I have visually seen near me (I have looked out to 2 miles)--with tracking red/green/black approaching/departing/stationary vessels. It is linking the AIS info, which can be displayed by selecting the radar image on the 8610 touchscreen.

Sonar:
With 8 coho fishing trips this spring, the traditional 'chips' sonar is quite detailed. It is showing thousands more fish that I still can't catch.

Downvision (or ClearVu):
Works well to delineate the fishing nets very common throughout the Apostle Islands--which we need to keep distance from when motoring/dragging fishing gear past. It also shows the shallow wrecks near some of the islands/mainland bays.

Heading sensor/NEMA:
The heading sensor/gps that I installed under the V-berth's roof (18" behind the windless) is working well. It keeps the radar overlay in sync with the chart. I gained accuracy over the chartplotter's built-in gps and it allows its gps to be shared over the NMEA 0183 and 2000 networks.

Charts:
I preferred the Navionics charts, as that is what I have used on my Raymarine unit for many years. I kept the Raymarine for redundancy, and also to continue easy access to my prior waypoint and route history. This is working well. I did replace the Garmin Bluewater G3 charts that came installed on the 8610 with (new in Feb 2022) Garmin Navionics+ charts. This makes the Navionics on the Raymarine and the new Navionics+ on the Garmin to be most similar. Although I had no issues updating the charts, there are many reported issues, esp, with Garmin units older than 2019.

Despite using Navionics charts on both plotters, I still need practice with routing on the Garmin unit. Navionics routing on the Raymarine and Boating app are (to me) quite intuitive. I find Garmin's routing much less so--at least till I gain more experience with it. By having both systems I can use either one for now.

One other personal preference I tested is the touch screen--going with the all touch 8610 to maximize screen pixels in the smaller MFD size. All my prior MFD's have been button only. I now prefer the Garmin touch screen to my prior button units. For button control, Garmin offers a remote with buttons, but I don't believe I would use it enough to add it.

More electronics:
Adding electronics seems to beg the question, what additional ones to add? The MFD is 2 months old and Garmin is coming out with a "Boat Switch" to digitally control traditional switches like lights and pumps from the MFD screen. My auto-pilot saving account has not even started yet.

On my last Bayfield trip, an owner of a 30 ft sailboat walked over to chat, as we were securing the boat on the trailer. He indicated he and his wife were looking to downsize a bit. He gave the C-Dory high marks for the easy launch/retrieve. He then pointed to the motor(s) and said 40hp, saying he had a lot of experience with 40hp on his Lund Alaska boat. The power boats docked around him are spending $100 to take a trip around the island (Madeline). He/I smiled when he said the only problem with the C-Dory is that he doesn't have one yet.

Thanks again to all the folks who share on this forum.
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