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osmotic blistering and bottom paint questions...
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zuunami



Joined: 10 Aug 2021
Posts: 223
City/Region: Fort Bragg
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 16 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Oh Buoy!
Photos: zuunami
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

p.s. I guess I just don't understand how, with all of our technology, that there's not a clear finish that's lasting, anti-fouling, and doesn't break the bank Smile
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Karen W. and Robert R.- Fort Bragg, CA - Oh Buoy!
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Hunkydory



Joined: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 2652
City/Region: Cokeville, Wyoming
State or Province: WY
C-Dory Year: 2000
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Hunkydory
Photos: Hunkydory-Jay-and-Jolee
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I gave the Desitin a good try 10+ years ago on one of our extended SE Alaska cruises. On previous cruises in this area we had got a bad scum build up in the area around the boat above the bottom paint. On our very heavy boat on these extended cruises there would be several inches above the bottom paint, that became somewhat difficult to clean back up. For us the Desitin did somewhat limit the build up, but that area with the Desitin used during the cruise became much more difficult to clean. I ended up like Jody just finished doing & that is raising the bottom paint about 4 inches & that actually worked making the clean up following the extended cruises thereafter a much easier & less time consuming job.

Jay

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hardee



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 12632
City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well thanks for giving it a try, but I didn't use it on any of the gel coat surface, only on the trim tabs and around the sides and top of the transducer. I wished I had used it on the OB legs too, because they got pretty hairy, no barnacles though.

Keep track of your testing, and lets us know which works the best Idea Very Happy

Harvey
SleepyC Moon


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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20779
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2022 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a video of "PropSpeed" vs no Prop Speed on bronze props dockside. This means there was no running of the props.

Most cruising sailboats and trawlers are using Prop Speed. I doubt the prop speed will work well on fiberglass.

Ref: clear material and anti fouling. There have been a number of waxes with have been tried--with no good results. There needs to be either some toxin, or so slick that the growth will not stick.

We have been using a host of different waxes and other "polishes" on the 25 for the last few years. Probably the best--and keeping it that way, is one of the good waxes such as Colinite.

The Acrylic Floor wax / Poly Glow type of product works fine for a relatively short period of time--but it eventually catches up with you. See John Highsmith's comments on Cat of Mine. He eventually had to have it removed and went to wax=$$$$$. For a "quick and dirty" method it works fine. It also gives some protection.

If ou keep the boat waxed, then you will not have to compound, and will not have the material stuffing off. Yes, at some point it will all be gone. Then you can paint it with Awlgrip (somewhere like $500 a foot of boat length) and not have to worry about it for the next 12 years.

All of the ceramic over the wax I have read of was not successful. I used the SiO2 spray on for a section of the 25 hull--I was not impressed. I believe you have to go with the expensive stuff and perhaps professionally applied to get the most out of it. That can be expensive--it may be worth it. Many boats are using that.

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Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
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zuunami



Joined: 10 Aug 2021
Posts: 223
City/Region: Fort Bragg
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 16 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Oh Buoy!
Photos: zuunami
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thataway, thanks, we have some collinite 885 coming tomorrow on your recommendation. I think one of the test areas on the bottom that we'll do is a ceramic spray, followed by wax. That's how it's done on autos. But test areas are going to be only 6 x 6'', so it's not like it'll hurt anything if it doesn't work, hopefully Smile
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C-Wolfe



Joined: 16 Sep 2020
Posts: 241
City/Region: Anchorage
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Wolfe
Photos: C-Wolfe
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2022 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thataway wrote:
There are a number of slightly different products which are "Meguiares marine wax," (Paste, Cleaner Wax, liquid "M5616 Marine/RV Pure Wax Carnauba Blend", the list goes on--and I have probably tried 90% of them. Meguiares wax product go on easily and are easily buffed out.

There is more work with the Collinite 885, but it lasts longer.
What machine and what product are you using to "buff" and "polish"?

You can get acceptable--and what looks good, with a minimal effort. The problem is it does not last. If you start out with the heavy duty compounding, then a lighter compounding, polish and then good quality wax, which you never allow to complete deteriorate , the entire system will keep the boat looking good, and protect the gel coat for years. If you go for a lessor job, then you end up repeating the lesser procedure many times over.

There are so many products--and systems--whcih probably can make one very confused. Generally sticking with one system or several of the well known marine products-such as by 3M is best.

For the best compounding one goes to the heavy duty machines--such as the Makita 9237CX3 7", The DEWALT 7-Inch/9-Inch (DWP849X), There is the use of either wool or foam pads--different pads for the various stages of compounding to get a good base for the wax system. The importance is a compounding machine which does not bog down as you vary the pressure. A cheap Harbor Freight or Northern Tools, is a fraction of the cost, but just does not keep the same RPM if you put pressure on it. A circular machine to start with and the final steps with a Random Orbital machine. I have found out that a good right angle battery operated drill with a 2 to 3" foam pad works for the smaller areas such as near decals, and decks, work well on the C Dorys.

Here is a video on using the rotary buffer This person has a series of videos on how to get a quality job on compounding, polishing and waxing. While in the mood for watching, check out his other videos on polishing waxing the second machine (random orbital) etc.

Also sort of the "rage" is ceramic coating. Si02 is a cheaper variant, and may not last as long. There are the cheap DIY materials, to the professional applied which can run into the hundreds of dollars for the top of the line--which lasts several years.

There are a number of systems by: 3M, McKee's 37/Nautical one, Chemical Guys, Shurhold, Presta,Smoovewax, Starbrite, (My experience is that the Meguiar's system is just not as durable, even though it may give a good look initially.) I would suggest using one system and staying with it. Wax the boat on a regular basis--if left in the water then perhaps 2 to 3 times a year. If kept under cover--then you may only have to do a good wax job every few years. The secret is to never allow the hull to begin chalking and keep wax on the entire hull.


As I understand it, the Collinite 885 is a bit harder to use but will last longer, will it be ok to wax the boat hull with Colonite 885 over a different brand(Meguiar's paste wax in my case) that was apply on the previous year?

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C-Wolfe 22 C-Dory cruiser 2020- present
No Name; Bayliner explorer 26 2012-2015
sparkle; Ericson 25 CB 2008-2012
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C-Wolfe



Joined: 16 Sep 2020
Posts: 241
City/Region: Anchorage
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Wolfe
Photos: C-Wolfe
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2022 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thataway wrote:
There are a number of slightly different products which are "Meguiares marine wax," (Paste, Cleaner Wax, liquid "M5616 Marine/RV Pure Wax Carnauba Blend", the list goes on--and I have probably tried 90% of them. Meguiares wax product go on easily and are easily buffed out.

There is more work with the Collinite 885, but it lasts longer.
What machine and what product are you using to "buff" and "polish"?

You can get acceptable--and what looks good, with a minimal effort. The problem is it does not last. If you start out with the heavy duty compounding, then a lighter compounding, polish and then good quality wax, which you never allow to complete deteriorate , the entire system will keep the boat looking good, and protect the gel coat for years. If you go for a lessor job, then you end up repeating the lesser procedure many times over.

There are so many products--and systems--whcih probably can make one very confused. Generally sticking with one system or several of the well known marine products-such as by 3M is best.

For the best compounding one goes to the heavy duty machines--such as the Makita 9237CX3 7", The DEWALT 7-Inch/9-Inch (DWP849X), There is the use of either wool or foam pads--different pads for the various stages of compounding to get a good base for the wax system. The importance is a compounding machine which does not bog down as you vary the pressure. A cheap Harbor Freight or Northern Tools, is a fraction of the cost, but just does not keep the same RPM if you put pressure on it. A circular machine to start with and the final steps with a Random Orbital machine. I have found out that a good right angle battery operated drill with a 2 to 3" foam pad works for the smaller areas such as near decals, and decks, work well on the C Dorys.

Here is a video on using the rotary buffer This person has a series of videos on how to get a quality job on compounding, polishing and waxing. While in the mood for watching, check out his other videos on polishing waxing the second machine (random orbital) etc.

Also sort of the "rage" is ceramic coating. Si02 is a cheaper variant, and may not last as long. There are the cheap DIY materials, to the professional applied which can run into the hundreds of dollars for the top of the line--which lasts several years.

There are a number of systems by: 3M, McKee's 37/Nautical one, Chemical Guys, Shurhold, Presta,Smoovewax, Starbrite, (My experience is that the Meguiar's system is just not as durable, even though it may give a good look initially.) I would suggest using one system and staying with it. Wax the boat on a regular basis--if left in the water then perhaps 2 to 3 times a year. If kept under cover--then you may only have to do a good wax job every few years. The secret is to never allow the hull to begin chalking and keep wax on the entire hull.


As I understand it, the Collinite 885 is a bit harder to use but will last longer, will it be ok to wax the boat hull with Colonite 885 over a different brand(Meguiar's paste wax in my case) that was apply on the previous year?
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zuunami



Joined: 10 Aug 2021
Posts: 223
City/Region: Fort Bragg
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 16 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Oh Buoy!
Photos: zuunami
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2022 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found a little bit online on PropSpeed, but not much, and not very positive (and pricey Smile Seems silicone based. I agree probably not for fiberglass. I ran across a product called McLube Antifoul Speed Polish, might be interesting to try a section with that. They don't provide ingredients, so perhaps it's silicone based as well Thataway, have you heard of McLube?
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20779
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2022 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The positive material on Prop Speed is on the Trawler forums. It is being used successfully by many of these types of vessels.

The McLube products are a "PTFE suspension system with an entirely revolutionary citrus-based, long-lasting and high-gloss polish"

The problem is that all of these will be soluble in water and will only last between haul outs. Are you gong to put another coat of any of these products on at the time you haul out?

Any of the teflon (PTFE) products and silicone products can make painting more difficult (this refers to to many of the hull paints). You have to remove all of the silicone or Teflon material from the surface before painting.
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zuunami



Joined: 10 Aug 2021
Posts: 223
City/Region: Fort Bragg
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 16 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Oh Buoy!
Photos: zuunami
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2022 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks, just trying to find a product(s) that will last the longest until we decide whether to do bottom paint. I'm not sure wax will last very long, so we would have to reapply periodically anyway. I was just thinking that McLube over wax (which they say you can do) would last longer than just wax. And if we eventually bottom paint, then if the McLube comes off easily, and you have to dewax and perhaps sand before bottom painting, I'm not sure of the downside. Going to put on some Collinite tomorrow Smile
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zuunami



Joined: 10 Aug 2021
Posts: 223
City/Region: Fort Bragg
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 16 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Oh Buoy!
Photos: zuunami
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

C-Wolfe, we just applied the Collinite 885 to one side of the boat (applied Meguair's flagship marine wax to the other). It was the easiest wax to put on that I've ever done. It's not thin, but it goes on very silky and feels rather hefty. I like it a lot as far as application and what appears to be coverage, but of course can't speak yet to longevity.

Since I believe it has a lot of carnauba, I personally wouldn't hesitate to put it over any other wax or sealant (I'm not sure how putting a heavy polymer over a mainly carnauba wax would work, just my opinion). We researched waxes pretty heavily last year when we got into detailing our cars, and the one thing that stood out for me is that it may be a waste of time to put more than one coat on (the exception is ceramics) because most waxes/sealants have a solvent as a carrier, so when you apply a second layer, you are essentially removing the first layer. If you put ten coats on, you may end up with 1-1/2 coats Smile
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zuunami



Joined: 10 Aug 2021
Posts: 223
City/Region: Fort Bragg
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 16 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Oh Buoy!
Photos: zuunami
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2022 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I need to add to my last post - I ASSUME Collinite has a lot of carnauba, because that's why I've read, but I don't know that. They don't list their ingredients, and their MSDS doesn't either. Meguair's flagship marine does list its ingredients. An interesting thing I learned today is that you should question the use of the term "polymer" in a wax/sealant. I always assumed it was a synthetic, plastic like material. The definition of polymer is "a substance that has a molecular structure consisting chiefly or entirely of a large number of similar units bonded together". So unless a product states what that "polymer" is, you have no idea what it is.
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