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Dimensions of 4, 5, or 6hp kicker
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srbaum



Joined: 30 Aug 2010
Posts: 875
City/Region: Portsmouth
State or Province: VA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 26 Venture
Vessel Name: Osprey
Photos: Osprey
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zuunami,
Just purchase for a reputable source, such as Defender.com, or Boats.net and you will get the best price and not get burned.

_________________
Steve Baum
Homeport of Portsmouth, VA
OSPREY (Ex Mister Sea) 2000 22 C-Dory 2010 - Sold 3/19
OSPREY (Ex ADITI) 2007 26 Cape Cruiser 2018
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jkidd



Joined: 23 Oct 2006
Posts: 1609
City/Region: Northern, Utah
State or Province: UT
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Voyager
Photos: Voyager (JK)
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you buy a long shaft it will need to be mounted on a bracket that will lift up so the skag doesn’t drag in the water. I’m running a 6 hp short shaft on my 22 and it works just fine. I raised my bracket 5” and the short shaft works and can be used on the dingy. The Suzuki’s are quiet and water cooled.
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Jody Kidd
KE7WNG
Northern, Utah

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zuunami



Joined: 10 Aug 2021
Posts: 223
City/Region: Fort Bragg
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 16 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Oh Buoy!
Photos: zuunami
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks jkidd - the transom on the 16' cruiser is 20", which everywhere we've looked indicates a long shaft. I think I'd rather have a longer shaft than necessary, then build or buy a mount that raises it up, than have the shaft too short. Your Suzukis look great in your album - one of the reasons that we are pretty set going with mercury is that our main is a mercury, the 5hp has an alternator and high thrust prop, and we actually have an authorized dealer within 200 miles - for Tohatsu and Suzuki, it's 300 miles plus Smile
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Karen W. and Robert R.- Fort Bragg, CA - Oh Buoy!
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jkidd



Joined: 23 Oct 2006
Posts: 1609
City/Region: Northern, Utah
State or Province: UT
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Voyager
Photos: Voyager (JK)
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zuunami wrote:
thanks jkidd - the transom on the 16' cruiser is 20", which everywhere we've looked indicates a long shaft. I think I'd rather have a longer shaft than necessary, then build or buy a mount that raises it up, than have the shaft too short. Your Suzukis look great in your album - one of the reasons that we are pretty set going with mercury is that our main is a mercury, the 5hp has an alternator and high thrust prop, and we actually have an authorized dealer within 200 miles - for Tohatsu and Suzuki, it's 300 miles plus Smile


My original kicker was a 9.9 long shaft on a fixed bracket. I raise the bracket 5” to get the motor to stop dragging in the water. 5” is the difference between the long and short shaft. The kicker isn’t going to plane the boat so it doesn’t need to be that long. When I switched to the 6 hp I didn’t lower the bracket so my motor is 10” higher than where the long shaft would sit and still functions just fine. The long shaft will work I just don’t think you have to do it and it would be less things to do to make it work.
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MikeR



Joined: 21 Apr 2013
Posts: 474
City/Region: Mill Creek
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2016
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: MikeR
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like Steve, I also have a garage full of small outboards I enjoy tinkering with and running on small boats. Like Jody, I also prefer a short shaft kicker on my 16’.

Currently running a 2.5 Suzuki as the kicker on my 16 but also ran my 6 hp Suzuki for years, both short shafts. Prefer the 2.5 because it’s lighter, smaller, pushes the 16 fine, and I don’t use it too much. Prefer the short shafts because I also run these kickers on my various inflatable dinghies, where long shafts are just too long. Out toward the sides of the boat your transom isn’t the full 20” of depth, and at displacement speeds on the kicker the prop is always plenty deep. The only time the short shaft doesn’t work as well is in reverse, but for my purposes I’ve never needed reverse on a kicker, and I don’t fish much at all. I’ve also used the 2.5 short to motor way up into the shallows of a busy anchorage, far from other boats with more confidence than I would have with a long shaft.

All that said, on my 22 I run the Tohatsu 6 Sail Pro which is the same as the Merc 5 Sail you are looking at and I agree that’s a great choice and you won’t be disappointed. Steve’s comments about the larger prop are spot-on and on my 22 I occasionally cruise around just for fun at about 1/2 throttle. The Sail Pro versions are only available in 20” and 25”, and wouldn’t make sense as a short shaft anyway because the prop isn’t designed to get small dinghies onto plane. You could get a 15” 4, 5, or 6 and add the high thrust prop but you still wouldn’t have the charging capabilities. So if slow speed kicker is your only intended use I think you’re doing very well with the 20” 5hp Merc Sail that you’ve picked!

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22' C-Dory Cruiser (2016)
16' C-Dory Angler (1989)
10' C-Dory Row Boat (1995)
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zuunami



Joined: 10 Aug 2021
Posts: 223
City/Region: Fort Bragg
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 16 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Oh Buoy!
Photos: zuunami
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike, thanks, now you've got us thinking about our original choice - a 3.5. Did the 2.5 push your 16' in ocean current okay? I suppose we could get either a 2.5 or 3.5, and upgrade the carburetor and the prop? And I understand now what you and Steve are saying about the short shaft. The only downsides are the fact that they don't have a reverse shift, and the shifter is on the back. Well, and there is no external gas tank connection. (We can do without the alternator.) But as little as we expect to use it, might not be a bad trade-off since our primary goals are a small footprint and weight off the transom? hmmm Smile
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zuunami



Joined: 10 Aug 2021
Posts: 223
City/Region: Fort Bragg
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 16 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Oh Buoy!
Photos: zuunami
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just one other question about the short shaft vs. long shaft on the 2.5 or 3.5. Wouldn't it be more convenient to use if the long shaft were raised by 5" above the transom with some sort of mount? It would seem the tiller would be more accessible? thanks again everyone! - Karen
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srbaum



Joined: 30 Aug 2010
Posts: 875
City/Region: Portsmouth
State or Province: VA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 26 Venture
Vessel Name: Osprey
Photos: Osprey
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Karen,
Having the throttle higher up, would certainly make adjustments easier and I agree that having the shifter in the front will save the reaching.
The 2.5 and 3.5 (no reverse) Tohatsu 4 stroke (rebadged Mercury, Mariner, Nissan and Evinrude), do not have a high thrust prop option and the carburator is the only difference.
Suzuki has a 2.5 (no reverse), but the next size up is a 4 & 6 (carb is the main difference), which weigh about what the 4, 5 & 6 Tohatsu does. No high thrust prop option available.
Yamaha like Suzuki has a 2.5 (no reverse) and 4 & 6 (carb is the main difference), which weigh about what the Tohatsu does. No high thrust prop option available.
Honda has an air cooled 2.3 (no reverse) and a 5. No high thrust option is available.
I have all of these in the shed, if you would like to drive across country to find the one best suited for your application... Very Happy
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20778
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You have to remember that in similar displacement motors, just changing the carburetor will have most effect at the higher RPM range. The limit of many of the motors is gong to be the prop thrust.

Also unless the prop extends well below the bottom of the boat, reverse will not be very effective, since the prop wash will be against the transom. and reflected back. This is the reason that many of us use an articulating motor bracket because it will raise the motor up and help to keep the lower unit from dragging in the water when underway with the main engine. Also it gets the motor set back to clear dept sounder transducers, as well as getting the lower unit below the bottom of the boat.

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Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL
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zuunami



Joined: 10 Aug 2021
Posts: 223
City/Region: Fort Bragg
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 16 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Oh Buoy!
Photos: zuunami
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

srbaum, I would drive across country (maybe) if you had a 5 or 6 hp that weighed 40 pounds lol Seriously, thanks for all of the info!
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zuunami



Joined: 10 Aug 2021
Posts: 223
City/Region: Fort Bragg
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 16 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Oh Buoy!
Photos: zuunami
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thataway, thanks for the info, so are you a proponent of the short shaft or long for the 16, with a compensating mount if a long shaft?
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texasair



Joined: 01 Feb 2009
Posts: 407
City/Region: Cypress, Texas
State or Province: TX
C-Dory Year: 1989
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Bixby's Cub
Photos: Bixbys Cub
PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My 15" shaft 2005 Mercury 5 hp single cylinder 2 stroke weighs 43 lbs.
It has forward neutral and reverse. It has an integral fuel tank as well as a snap on fitting for a remote tank.

Its primary function is as my emergency kicker motor on my 22 cruiser.
My non adjustable mount has 4" of setback from the transom.

With the 4" setback and a little help from the offset from the center, the 15" motor does well on the 20 transom and in the tilt position clears the water when on plane with the big motor. 3/4 throttle cruise on the heavily loaded 22 cruiser is 4 mph. Reverse is acceptable. I have a snap on steering tube that allows me to partially tilt the big motor and steer from the helm.

I keep the integral tank full and ready to go with premix.
In a total failure of the big motor where I may have to go for several days on the kicker, I plan to add oil to one of my main tanks to the proper mix ratio and snap the fuel line directly to the kicker.

This set up works well on my 22 and would do a stellar job on your 16,

Properly set up the 15" motors work well, are more readily available, and will function better on a wide variety of canoes, dingys, inflatables and other small craft than a 20" shaft motor. The short shaft (15") motors are also more compact. lighter, easier to move and store than the longer shaft motors/

There are several photos of this installation of the short shaft (15") kicker with the set back bracket on my 20 transom in the Bixby's Cub Photo album.

Also of this vintage are the Mercury 2.5 and 3.5 2 stroke Motors with a weight of 28 lbs.
I have owned both and they are good motors, simple, dependable and easy to work on and should push the 16 well.
But Forward and neutral only, reverse by spinning the motor 180 degrees.
Integral fuel tank, no factory aux fuel tank fitting, but would not be hard to add a tee and install the aux fuel fitting if you thought you needed it.


I have spent time on a friends 16 and every few pounds seems to matter.
I would consider the 2.5 or 3.5, 28 lb Merc short shaft (15") 2 stroke as your best option. Keep it simple, lock the little motor on center and steer from the helm with the big motor as a tiller on long stretches. and move to the back of the boat and steer the little motor directly when maneuvering.
Try it first just clamped to the transom and if you are not happy with the performance get a mount with a few inches of set back. The set back allows better water flow to the shorter shaft motor.
I would have no qualms mounting a well cared for vintage lightweight 2 stroke as a kicker motor.

Best of luck
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jkidd



Joined: 23 Oct 2006
Posts: 1609
City/Region: Northern, Utah
State or Province: UT
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Voyager
Photos: Voyager (JK)
PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

California has lake where 2 strokes are banned might be the whole state by now. They just banned 4 stroke generators. you should check in to that before you buy a 2 stroke. Of course you said you want new and the 2 stroke would most likely be used.
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zuunami



Joined: 10 Aug 2021
Posts: 223
City/Region: Fort Bragg
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 16 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Oh Buoy!
Photos: zuunami
PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So we're now leaning toward (hopefully a finale) Merc short shaft 4hp (for the reverse and external fuel tank hookup vs. the 3.5). We can see how that does, and can always upgrade the carburetor to a 6hp, and the prop to a 6" pitch (on the prop, probably earlier than later). It's 55 pounds, so that's pretty good.

The reason we want to stay small in hp to start is that what we really want is an electric, like a torqeedo, but not ready to go that route (after a LOT of study) - and a lower hp motor would give us a better feel for what a 3hp equivalent electric would be like. We saw the torqeedo in person recently, and it just wasn't very attractive. And we've looked at the E-propulsion, etc. But I'm sure there'll be a lot of changes in the electric market in the future.

Thanks for all of your input, and hope we're on the right track? - Karen

(Well, unless srbaum wants to sell us one of his equivalent motors Smile
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daninPA



Joined: 16 Aug 2020
Posts: 238
City/Region: MOUNT JOY
State or Province: PA
C-Dory Year: 1994
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: NAVIRE
Photos: daninPA
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2022 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jkidd wrote:
California has lake where 2 strokes are banned might be the whole state by now. They just banned 4 stroke generators. you should check in to that before you buy a 2 stroke. Of course you said you want new and the 2 stroke would most likely be used.


4 stroke generators are banned in a state with rolling power blackouts?!?!?!
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