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Anchor Drum Winch
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stevej



Joined: 01 Nov 2003
Posts: 314
City/Region: Gaston
State or Province: OR
C-Dory Year: 1995
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruise Ship
Vessel Name: Shearwater
Photos: Shearwater
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Going to be working on the boat today and will grab some measurements for you Hardee.
Fairly sizable package, if I remember right believe it’s loaded with 170’ of 1/2 rode and 30’ of 3/8 chain. Not a deep water system but good up to 40’ or so.

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robhwa



Joined: 04 Dec 2013
Posts: 272
City/Region: Anderson Island
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Marcia C
Photos: Problemadela
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevej wrote:
Going to be working on the boat today and will grab some measurements for you Hardee.
Fairly sizable package, if I remember right believe it’s loaded with 170’ of 1/2 rode and 30’ of 3/8 chain. Not a deep water system but good up to 40’ or so.

For a smaller total and deeper water (i.e. anchoring for Halibut), I've been thinking about a 3-part system. Anchor, chain, 50-100 ft or so regular rode, and then a lot of finer (and lighter) but very strong Spectra. I've been very impressed with using Spectra in runners (the sling between the protection "piece" and the rope) for rockclimbing, as it increases strength and reduces overall weight of what you carry. The stretch and energy absorption of a fall is absorbed by the climbing rope, not the runners, and Spectra is the primo material for them now. Obviously, fine, slick, Spectra won't feed into a regular puller as the chain and regular rode will, but with a drum system that won't matter. I'm also not crazy about the gunk going into my bow cabin. For regular anchoring, you won't even get to the Spectra. This stuff is amazingly strong, but doesn't stretch, so Spectra direct to chain would be too jerky, and maybe put too much stress on the anchoring system. Anyone tried this or seen it? Also, I was able to splice the regular rode to the chain nicely, but I'm not sure how to approach Spectra. Actually a knot or two probably wouldn't snag the reel system too much. Any advice or experience?
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NORO LIM



Joined: 24 Apr 2008
Posts: 875
City/Region: Olympia
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: NORO LIM (sold 12/12/14)
Photos: NORO LIM
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

robhwa wrote:
. . .
For a smaller total and deeper water (i.e. anchoring for Halibut), I've been thinking about a 3-part system. Anchor, chain, 50-100 ft or so regular rode, and then a lot of finer (and lighter) but very strong Spectra. I've been very impressed with using Spectra in runners (the sling between the protection "piece" and the rope) for rockclimbing, as it increases strength and reduces overall weight of what you carry. The stretch and energy absorption of a fall is absorbed by the climbing rope, not the runners, and Spectra is the primo material for them now. Obviously, fine, slick, Spectra won't feed into a regular puller as the chain and regular rode will, but with a drum system that won't matter. I'm also not crazy about the gunk going into my bow cabin. For regular anchoring, you won't even get to the Spectra. This stuff is amazingly strong, but doesn't stretch, so Spectra direct to chain would be too jerky, and maybe put too much stress on the anchoring system. Anyone tried this or seen it? Also, I was able to splice the regular rode to the chain nicely, but I'm not sure how to approach Spectra. Actually a knot or two probably wouldn't snag the reel system too much. Any advice or experience?


I toyed with the idea of this exact kind of system several times. Things to keep in mind about Spectra (Dyneema, as well):

As you noted, they have about zero stretch;

The are not well-suited for most knots - too slippery;

They float.

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2001 CD 16, 2001-2006
2006 CC 23, 2006-2014
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hardee



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 12632
City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the concept of keeping the rode and chain out of the V-Birth. I also like the Spectra/Dyneema size weight and working load ratio. Still, that takes a pretty good chunk of space (Thanks Bob, for the brochure link), and don't have measurements but that foredeck on a 22 is just not huge.

Harvey
SleepyC


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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
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City/Region: Pensacola
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C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that Dyneema or Spectra would be ideal materials for the drum windlass. The joining of the Dyneema and a nylon section would easily be made by an eye place or Brummel splice in the Dyneema, into an eye splice into the nylon. There nylon would be a rope to chain splice to the chain.

One disadvantage of the Spectra or Dyneema is that you cannot make a bridal to the dyneema or spectra. (only if you were at the end where you could make an eye splice. )

On the other hand, many fishing boats world around use steel cable spliced to the chain on a drum windlass for their anchoring system. No more shock absorbing system other than the catenary of the chain. We do know at about 40 knots of wind, (depending on the vessel type) that the catenary disappears, and the chain starts to b some bar tight- and no shock absorbing effect.

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Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
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stevej



Joined: 01 Nov 2003
Posts: 314
City/Region: Gaston
State or Province: OR
C-Dory Year: 1995
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruise Ship
Vessel Name: Shearwater
Photos: Shearwater
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2022 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hardee wrote:
I like the concept of keeping the rode and chain out of the V-Birth. I also like the Spectra/Dyneema size weight and working load ratio. Still, that takes a pretty good chunk of space (Thanks Bob, for the brochure link), and don't have measurements but that foredeck on a 22 is just not huge.

Harvey
SleepyC

r

Be pretty big on a 22’
22.5” long
14.5” wide
13” tall (12” spool)
No wet anchor line inside the boat was one factor, along with using the locker space for an extra battery as part of the Alaska bound preparation.
There also seems to be A lot of discussions around failure, almost works most of time, where can I find parts with traditional windless offerings. Which was the real driver to look at drum systems.

Steven
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Nash 22



Joined: 08 May 2017
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City/Region: Annapolis
State or Province: MD
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Anyfin possible
Photos: Anyfin Possible
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:14 pm    Post subject: Lone Star Marine Reply with quote

Check out Lone Star Marine winches.
I installed a GX-1 winch on my boat and love it.
I don’t have to go to the bow to tie the rode to a cleat and the winch doesn’t interfere with my line of sight.
The winch holds my boat nicely with a 13 lbs anchor, 20' of chain, and about 200 feet of synthetic rode.

You can also purchase the pre-made wires for the installation.

Check out my album to see a couple of pics.

_________________
----------------
2006 22' Cruiser - 90hp
1999 Chaparral 240 Signature - sold 2018
1986 Regal Bowrider - sold 2007

Home port - Annapolis, MD
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20778
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 11:24 am    Post subject: Re: Lone Star Marine Reply with quote

Nash 22 wrote:
Check out Lone Star Marine winches.
I installed a GX-1 winch on my boat and love it.
I don’t have to go to the bow to tie the rode to a cleat and the winch doesn’t interfere with my line of sight.
The winch holds my boat nicely with a 13 lbs anchor, 20' of chain, and about 200 feet of synthetic rode.

You can also purchase the pre-made wires for the installation.

Check out my album to see a couple of pics.


Thanks for the heads up on the Lone Star Winch! Interesting!
The review of testing showed the Lone Star Marine winch was clearly superior to other's reviewed in Australia.

Where did you buy the Winch, what material and diameter of synthetic line? How did you do the chain to rope splice. What is the capacity of the winch with the line you are using.

Too bad it was not compared with the EZ Anchor puller. But the Lone Star certainly seems like a very good winch.
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NORO LIM



Joined: 24 Apr 2008
Posts: 875
City/Region: Olympia
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: NORO LIM (sold 12/12/14)
Photos: NORO LIM
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I was toying with the idea of a drum winch, Lone Star was the brand I was looking at. Their testing results were really impressive. As always, a bit of skepticism is in order when a manufacturer tests its own product, but the winches appear to be very well built and durable. I never got far enough down the road to do a mock up to see what an installation might look like, and how it might affect line of sight. Scratch pad drawings had me pretty well convinced it would be doable. My thought on the rode was roughtly: 50 feet of chain, 150 feet of 8-plait or double-braided rope, and however many more feet of Dyneema would fit. I figured the chain catenary and the braided rope would suffice for shock absorption. Generally, the fewer connections the better in almost any system, but anchor to chain to braided rope to Dyneema to drum didn't seem unreasonable. It only adds one connection to a pretty standard set-up.
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Nash 22



Joined: 08 May 2017
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City/Region: Annapolis
State or Province: MD
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Anyfin possible
Photos: Anyfin Possible
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2022 2:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Lone Star Marine Reply with quote

thataway wrote:
Nash 22 wrote:
Check out Lone Star Marine winches.
I installed a GX-1 winch on my boat and love it.
I don’t have to go to the bow to tie the rode to a cleat and the winch doesn’t interfere with my line of sight.
The winch holds my boat nicely with a 13 lbs anchor, 20' of chain, and about 200 feet of synthetic rode.

You can also purchase the pre-made wires for the installation.

Check out my album to see a couple of pics.


Thanks for the heads up on the Lone Star Winch! Interesting!
The review of testing showed the Lone Star Marine winch was clearly superior to other's reviewed in Australia.

Where did you buy the Winch, what material and diameter of synthetic line? How did you do the chain to rope splice. What is the capacity of the winch with the line you are using.

Too bad it was not compared with the EZ Anchor puller. But the Lone Star certainly seems like a very good winch.



I bought the winch through Hammermarine.com which is located in Texas. Great customer service.
I don’t recall the details for the line itself, but i bought it as a package with the chain already spliced to the line.
If you look at the Hammer Marine website, the description of each model of winch has the recommended dimensions for the anchor rod and the drum capacity.

Keep in mind that I bought the GX1 because its hold capacity satisfies my needs for boating in the Chesapeake Bay. Last 4th of July I was anchored across the Naval Academy in Annapolis waiting for the fireworks and it held nicely in some windy conditions. If your boating conditions include offshore or very rough waters, I would recommend the GX2 or GX3 models.

The installation is straight forward aside from drilling oversized holes, filling the holes with epoxy, and drilling the epoxy for the size of the bolts. I did a lot of research about windlasses and i am not a fan of putting wet and muddy anchor rod inside the cabin. At the time of my research the E’Z anchor website did not inspire confidence and I could not reach anyone on the phone or email. I did have the chance to see a used EZ anchor winch for sale in my area but it was out of a fishing boat, old, and it was way too big for me.

I really cannot say enough of my anchor winch. Easy to use from inside the cab and holds my boat well for the type of boating i do.
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