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snhstahl@gmail.com
Joined: 21 May 2021 Posts: 10 City/Region: Surry
State or Province: VA
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Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 7:38 pm Post subject: Horsepower |
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We recently bought a 2005 cruiser with a big heavy, loud, 2005 honda 90. Carburetors. I'm not saying I know it all, but I am a retired CG CPO and retired CG (civ) boatbuilder. When it comes to hp requirements on these boats, it looks like you need Doelfins, Permatrims, etc. AND trim tabs because you have 100 lbs more dead weight hanging off the transom than the designers said you need. The factory boot stripe on our boat is way down in the stern. No surprise. I think the designers striped it to be level with the appropriate engine. Of course, this is America. If the boat will do just fine with 70hp, 135 sounds just about right. Also ran a division for a yacht manufacturer, and started working on boats when Silverton Yachts was Silverton Skiffs. They were made of mahogany over oak. I'm still learning. |
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daninPA
Joined: 16 Aug 2020 Posts: 238 City/Region: MOUNT JOY
State or Province: PA
C-Dory Year: 1994
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: NAVIRE
Photos: daninPA
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Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, but it is kinda nice to go fast whenever it's an option.
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T.R. Bauer
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 1763 City/Region: Wasilla
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 1993
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Whisperer
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Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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I assume you have a CD 22 and it goes just fine with the 90 hp honda. The boats handle that weight, and much more, without issue. Obviously trim tabs help. If you think the honda 90 is heavy and loud, then you're really going to be unimpressed with the honda 135....I wouldn't put that motor on the back of anything - so many better choices. I would say for the vast majority of users, the 90 or 115 hp outboards are a great match for the boat. |
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tsturm
Joined: 01 Nov 2003 Posts: 1136 City/Region: Soldotna
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: JMR TOO
Photos: JMR-TOO
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Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 9:18 pm Post subject: Re: Horsepower |
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snhstahl@gmail.com wrote: | We recently bought a 2005 cruiser with a big heavy, loud, 2005 honda 90. Carburetors. I'm not saying I know it all, but I am a retired CG CPO and retired CG (civ) boatbuilder. When it comes to hp requirements on these boats, it looks like you need Doelfins, Permatrims, etc. AND trim tabs because you have 100 lbs more dead weight hanging off the transom than the designers said you need. The factory boot stripe on our boat is way down in the stern. No surprise. I think the designers striped it to be level with the appropriate engine. Of course, this is America. If the boat will do just fine with 70hp, 135 sounds just about right. Also ran a division for a yacht manufacturer, and started working on boats when Silverton Yachts was Silverton Skiffs. They were made of mahogany over oak. I'm still learning. |
140 Suzuki is what I would put on a 22 |
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DayBreak
Joined: 16 Jul 2017 Posts: 863 City/Region: Monmouth, Or.
State or Province: OR
C-Dory Year: 2018
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: DayBreak
Photos: DayBreak
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Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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T.R. Bauer wrote: | I assume you have a CD 22 and it goes just fine with the 90 hp honda. The boats handle that weight, and much more, without issue. Obviously trim tabs help. If you think the honda 90 is heavy and loud, then you're really going to be unimpressed with the honda 135....I wouldn't put that motor on the back of anything - so many better choices. I would say for the vast majority of users, the 90 or 115 hp outboards are a great match for the boat. |
If the boat is a 22 Cruiser, I am seeing more and more people put a Suzuki 140 on the back of that transom. This motor weights only about 34 more pounds than a Honda 90 (360 lbs. vs. 394 lbs.) and will get you the speed you want or need while underway at a lesser RPM. Something to think about. _________________ Gary F
DayBreak, 23 Venture, 2018 - present |
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ssilver
Joined: 11 Sep 2020 Posts: 71 City/Region: Albany NY
State or Province: NY
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Pearly Shell
Photos: Pearly Shell
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Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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Ours had a 2004 honda 90 when we got it ran pretty good. We had a 2020 Suzuki 90 and ended up swapping with that and added the permatrim "we already had trim tabs" If I did not have the newer suzuki or had money to burn I would have opted for a 115 or 140. While it does fine w/ the 90 the extra hp would be nice. We just did a long trip for us and were out in the ocean, I think the extra hp would have been nice to have climbing big rollers and just cruising home at a home at a faster pace at times. |
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T.R. Bauer
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 1763 City/Region: Wasilla
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 1993
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Whisperer
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Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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I have nothing but love for the Suzuki 140 as it's a great engine with impressive speed and efficiency. Unfortunately, since I have twins, I'd have to get 2 of them.... The 135 he mentioned, which I assume he was talking about the 135 honda is big, heavy, robust, and somewhat inefficient motor for the hp it's packing. Or should I say hp it's not packing?
Last edited by T.R. Bauer on Sun Aug 08, 2021 10:49 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 20875 City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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The boats don't perform well after about 30 knot...depending on conditions.
The original motor was a 70 two stroke. A 1984 2 stroke Johnson outboard engine weight is 248#. Current Honda 90 is 359 pounds. So. you are correct that the outboard most boats come with is 110 heavier.
The Permatrim gives a lower speed to plane, or comes up on a plane easier, and more of a bow down into chop--using the forward "V" to "cut" the chop--ve slamming into the more flat med sections/stern.
I almost always run heavy boats. I have been OK with the 90 on the 22, a 150 on the 25. My first 25 had a 130 (same block as the 115)--and was underpowered. If I were to reposer a 25, I would go to 200hp.
Heavy boat because U often gave supplies for a month. (Freezer, Refrigerator, extra water. (In my current boat I put 200 amp hours of Li Fe PO4 batteries under the v Bunk...but without the Li batteries, I would have adde 2 AGM growp 31 @ 70# each!
I have seen C Dory Transoms break when a powerful motor hit a log... _________________ Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL |
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ssilver
Joined: 11 Sep 2020 Posts: 71 City/Region: Albany NY
State or Province: NY
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Pearly Shell
Photos: Pearly Shell
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Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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There is a 25' in our marina w/ a honda 225. I have to ask him how it peforms. I never see him around. |
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clayhubler
Joined: 03 Aug 2019 Posts: 286 City/Region: La Center
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Hammerhead
Photos: Hammerhead
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Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:31 am Post subject: |
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I feel my boat with twin honda 40s is way underpowered. In my opinion, the boat handles best when it is heavily loaded. Less pounding and predictable handling. But with the twin 40s I can barely get on plane with that loadout. Following seas are the worst.
Those of you that run really heavy boats and have twin 40s, what props do you prefer? _________________ Clay on Hammerhead
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PaulNBriannaLynn
Joined: 26 Oct 2012 Posts: 757 City/Region: Fort White
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: TBD
Photos: Lorelei
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Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:48 am Post subject: |
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clayhubler wrote: | I feel my boat with twin honda 40s is way underpowered. In my opinion, the boat handles best when it is heavily loaded. Less pounding and predictable handling. But with the twin 40s I can barely get on plane with that loadout. Following seas are the worst.
Those of you that run really heavy boats and have twin 40s, what props do you prefer? |
Clay you should try and get a ride in another boat with twin 40s. We ran an identical boat for years and I never felt it was underpowered. Fully loaded cruising speed in the low 20s if my memory is correct. Certainly not as fast as a new Suzuki 140 would be, but never had a problem getting on a plane. _________________ 2007 22 cruiser sold 10/2021
2009 Parker 23 sold 10/2017
2003 22 cruiser sold 3/2016 |
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colbysmith
Joined: 02 Oct 2011 Posts: 4584 City/Region: Madison
State or Province: WI
C-Dory Year: 2009
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Traveler
Photos: C-Traveler and Midnight-Flyer
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Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2021 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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Unless something has changed, last I knew the 115hp is the biggest outboard recommended for the 22. Colby |
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itiming
Joined: 28 Apr 2020 Posts: 52 City/Region: Iron River
State or Province: WI
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Obsession
Photos: Obsession
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Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2021 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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clayhubler wrote: | I feel my boat with twin honda 40s is way underpowered. In my opinion, the boat handles best when it is heavily loaded. Less pounding and predictable handling. But with the twin 40s I can barely get on plane with that loadout. Following seas are the worst.
Those of you that run really heavy boats and have twin 40s, what props do you prefer? |
I also have twin 40s. After testing 11x13 vs 11x11 3-blade Honda props, I decided to follow Jay's lead/advice and tested Solas Amita 11.1x11 4-blade propellers today. They are the best performing props I tried when heavily loaded. Jay from C-Green explains it much better in his post here:
C-Green wrote: | I agree with T.R.B. I normally run heavy in fresh water with four blade 11.1x11 (DxP) Solas Amita props I also have permatrims and enlarged trim tabs. When light I get 5900 rpm.s and normally loaded (heavy, remember) 5400. Since max HP is at 5500, lightly loaded you want to be as near as possible to 6000 and possibly over (just don't run it there) so when loaded you have the best HP possible. Four blades seem to give better response at low and mid rpm's. Permatrims seem to help a lot as a rudder when docking slowly (my preference) and of course, for lateral and bow/stern trim when running. I average about 4 smpg, sometimes up to 4.5. I started with Solas 3 blade 13 pitch and went to 4 blade 12 pitch and was only at 5400 WOT, so I then went to 11 pitch. The 12 pitch props are my spares, only one needed once but awfully glad I had them.
Jay |
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Yakmandu
Joined: 03 Nov 2017 Posts: 70 City/Region: Lake Lanier
State or Province: GA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 19 Angler
Vessel Name: Miss April
Photos: Pops GO!
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Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 9:08 am Post subject: |
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If you put a 135 on a 22, I would recommend renaming your boat “Chine Walker”. _________________ Patrick Rohde
Miss April
Lake Lanier, GA |
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hardee
Joined: 30 Oct 2006 Posts: 12633 City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
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Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 11:39 am Post subject: |
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itiming wrote: | clayhubler wrote: | I feel my boat with twin honda 40s is way underpowered. In my opinion, the boat handles best when it is heavily loaded. Less pounding and predictable handling. But with the twin 40s I can barely get on plane with that loadout. Following seas are the worst.
Those of you that run really heavy boats and have twin 40s, what props do you prefer? |
I also have twin 40s. After testing 11x13 vs 11x11 3-blade Honda props, I decided to follow Jay's lead/advice and tested Solas Amita 11.1x11 4-blade propellers today. They are the best performing props I tried when heavily loaded. Jay from C-Green explains it much better in his post here:
C-Green wrote: | I agree with T.R.B. I normally run heavy in fresh water with four blade 11.1x11 (DxP) Solas Amita props I also have permatrims and enlarged trim tabs. When light I get 5900 rpm.s and normally loaded (heavy, remember) 5400. Since max HP is at 5500, lightly loaded you want to be as near as possible to 6000 and possibly over (just don't run it there) so when loaded you have the best HP possible. Four blades seem to give better response at low and mid rpm's. Permatrims seem to help a lot as a rudder when docking slowly (my preference) and of course, for lateral and bow/stern trim when running. I average about 4 smpg, sometimes up to 4.5. I started with Solas 3 blade 13 pitch and went to 4 blade 12 pitch and was only at 5400 WOT, so I then went to 11 pitch. The 12 pitch props are my spares, only one needed once but awfully glad I had them.
Jay |
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I have twin Yami 40's and though IF I was repowering, I would like twin 50's, I don't feel I am severely underpowered. I am running with Stainless props, (IIRC they are 12 1/4 x 9's after upgrading from aluminum,) And I did notice the difference in performance, especially in low speed and in reverse.
I would go to 50's but the Yami weight difference is a considerable increase since that is the next block size larger. I run a fairly heavy cruise boat and the inflatable is on a stainless pipe rack, not tubing so there is added weight aft there too. I don't really want to add weight aft, so happy with what I have.
My personal feeling, hard floating stuff comes at me plenty fast at 20 something knots, so I'm pretty happy with a 5.5 k cruise speed, and about 23-5 wound up for a hurry to beat a weather or tidal current window.
Harvey
SleepyC
_________________ Though in our sleep we are not conscious of our activity or surroundings, we should not, in our wakefulness, be unconscious of our sleep. |
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