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starcrafttom
Joined: 07 Nov 2003 Posts: 7887 City/Region: marysville
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1984
C-Dory Model: 27 Cruiser
Vessel Name: to be decided later
Photos: Susan E
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Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | in what realm do you think they are deciding? |
Politics and money, Just like most of their decisions. politics and not science is why we have so few fish now. The entire wild fish fraud is not based in science and was designed to lower the number of fish so fishing at some point will stop completely. The current fraud of " habitat reconstruction" in the puget sound that is turning hunting land in to mud pits for profit and will not and have never helped salmon numbers in the 50 years they have been trying it but hey its a way to gain federal funds so WDFW screws duck and pheasant hunters out of land so they can skim money into their own pet projects. Then there is the completely stupid reintroduction ( well intereduction) of non native wolves for the intent of collapsing deer and elk herds to stop hunting. It goes on and on. right now the shrimp stocks are up but limits and days are cut??? Canada just across from area 6 and 7 shrimp all year with 400 a day limits with no problems.... yeah its science.. and again not interested in arguing about it. just to tired telling people the truth and have to spend my time proving it to them. go do your own research, but hey there is none because WDFW suppresses it. Just like they did to their own reports on atlantic salmon and the dangers of overpopulation of seals.. If we followed science and not politics we would 1) produce more fish 2) shot more seal like we did for 100 years. 3) shoot some species of birds and 4) not allow anyone to net rivers. but hey politics and money no longer allow any of those things that we used to do. You know back when the runs were at their highest and their was enough fish for everyone. _________________ Thomas J Elliott
http://tomsfishinggear.blogspot.com/ |
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PaulNBriannaLynn
Joined: 26 Oct 2012 Posts: 757 City/Region: Fort White
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: TBD
Photos: Lorelei
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Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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Tom those are Canadian shrimp. With the border closure they cant enter into area 6 and 7, duh
I was reluctantly involved in a few of those farm land conversions to mudflats. They breach the levies and leave the once fertile and productive farmland a muddy wasteland. While they were never very good at producing salmon smolts, they are excellent for growing mosquitos. Nobody would believe the cost of those engineered tide gates used for those if I put a number down. You would not believe it I guarantee.... _________________ 2007 22 cruiser sold 10/2021
2009 Parker 23 sold 10/2017
2003 22 cruiser sold 3/2016 |
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starcrafttom
Joined: 07 Nov 2003 Posts: 7887 City/Region: marysville
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1984
C-Dory Model: 27 Cruiser
Vessel Name: to be decided later
Photos: Susan E
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Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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Paul I know that the Leque island dike need one million of Wdfw money in repairs to keep it as a bird watching and pheasant/duck hunting area. I also know that ducks unlimited ( not a friend of duck hunter in my opinion) got paid about 22 million in federal funds to destroy that site and turn it in to a mud pit. No more owls or cranes for people to see, No more pheasant plants and no plans to replace it. The short term duck hunting is not very good and will stop once the cat tails fill in just as they have at the other 5 areas they have done the same . How much you thing WDFW skimmed off that 22 million of federal funds??? They are about to do the same with the lervick property that the tribe is buying, well buying with federal fund so they can convert the land with more federal funds and take another duck hunting site away for the tax payer. An then there is the farmed island unit that is not going to be flooded with federal funds. This is a long standing duck hunting area of state land this is surrounded by other land that could be flooded far easier and cheaper and with no impact to hunter . They will use more federal funds to flood ands destroy land that was gifted to the state for the sole for hunters and other out door uses. Now it will be filed in with cattails, you know just like the other 100 acres or so of pheasant and duck hunting land that were flood and filled in with cattails 20 years ago. Well I got to get back to work so the feds have enough funds to destroy more land that will not produce one more fish without an increase of hatchery out put if at all. just more smolt for the seals and cormorants. |
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smckean (Tosca)
Joined: 18 Jan 2014 Posts: 975 City/Region: Guemes Island (Anacortes)
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Tosca
Photos: Tosca
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Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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Tom wrote: | Politics and money, Just like most of their decisions. politics and not science is why we have so few fish now. |
Tom, I understand that you may prefer not to answer follow up questions; if so, no problem. However, I am truly curious since I have experience working with WDFW biologists.
My original question was from that POV....that is, under what basis do you think the biologists at the WDFW are making decisions if not on science. I note you left out the word "biologists" when you quoted me. Perhaps that was on purpose since your explanation seems to represent your view of the WDFW agency generally. I am curious because it's hard for me to imagine why the couple dozen biologists I once knew at the WDFW would continue to work for the WDFW if they were forced to operate as you describe above. In my experience these biologists studied long and hard to get their degrees (often advanced degrees). Then after all that hard work, they just toss it all away in order to function as you describe? Is that really the way it is? _________________ Sandy McKean
Purchased Tosca in 2014
Re-powered to Yammi 200 in 2015 |
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PaulNBriannaLynn
Joined: 26 Oct 2012 Posts: 757 City/Region: Fort White
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: TBD
Photos: Lorelei
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Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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Ahhh Leque island, I had the pleasure of meeting the owners and discussing this project before I got the hell out of there. Its amazing the good ol boys built that dike over 100 years ago with minimal equipment and it cost nothing. For some reason it takes a million dollars to move some earth in Washington state. Probably have to fund pocket gopher EIS studies, purchase fancy sediment barriers and the permitting process will take years. There's lot of blame with the feds, and you're partially right, but why is it only like this in the blue states? On top of that, Washington is buried in an extra thick layer of bureaucracy, which is the tribes have a stranglehold on any projects with any federal or state funds. Each one has to go through the consultation process with each potentially impacted tribe. Its absolutely insane. Anyway.. I needed to get that off my chest. Carry on Washington with all your craziness. |
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PaulNBriannaLynn
Joined: 26 Oct 2012 Posts: 757 City/Region: Fort White
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: TBD
Photos: Lorelei
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Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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Bolt decision requires 50% of the potential catch go to tribes. WDFW has to manage for that. Spot shrimp have become increasingly popular both recreationally and as a wholesale product that can retail over $20 a pound. Tribes have been gearing up to get their piece of the pie (as they should). As salmon numbers have dwindled in recent years and Dungeness have also suffered, shrimp is a way to fill in the gap. I know a number of Puget sound tribes have gone all in with shrimping. That's relatively new.. That may be part of the politics of WDFW, but I don't claim to know much about whats happening over there anymore. |
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T.R. Bauer
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 1736 City/Region: Wasilla
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 1993
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Whisperer
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Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:03 am Post subject: |
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It's important to remember that well meaning biologists are not the policy makers or at fault. As Tom said, it's politics and money that drive most decisions. It really shouldn't be any surprise to anyone as that is how things work. Many of you have noted how things used it to be, but have forgotten how the increase of the local human population has increased pressure on stocks. It will never be how it used to be unless 5-6 million people move away from Puget Sound. We have the same issues here - it's a constant battle between stake holders fighting for a set quota with commfish normally winning the fight. As far as man made natural habitat restoration? Hahahahaha - that's really a good one....it's far better to not screw it up in the first place |
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C-Wolfe
Joined: 16 Sep 2020 Posts: 259 City/Region: Anchorage
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Valhalla
Photos: C-Wolfe
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Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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T.R. Bauer wrote: | Harvested 5 gallons of tails this weekend. |
Where did you go? I tore the boat apart all winter long, been trying to get it back together the last few weeks, should be ready to go out by the end of the weekend. Looking forward to go shrimping next week, I was boatless for the last few years and looking forward to go back to the sound. |
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smckean (Tosca)
Joined: 18 Jan 2014 Posts: 975 City/Region: Guemes Island (Anacortes)
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Tosca
Photos: Tosca
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Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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TR Bauer wrote: | As Tom said, it's politics and money that drive most decisions. |
In the 20 years I did volunteer work with the WDFW, that was not what I observed. Like I say, if it were true, I'm pretty sure many of the bios I knew would have quit. Did politics trump science sometimes? Yes, but not as a rule (if I had to guess it would be maybe 20% of the time). I observed a few bad decisions based purely on politics, but they were rare. Most of that 20% were true political tradeoffs where one group of stakeholders (say, sportsmen) were adamant that thus-and-so happen while another group (say, conservationists) were just as adamant for something else, and the groups were at loggerheads with the WDFW in the middle. The top brass at WDFW (with whom I've met many times) had to find a way to cut the baby in two....usually they did that pretty well, but not always. The normal scenario was a decision based on hard-won scientific data by the biologists (sometimes taking years) who then had to fight with a vocal group from the public who typically presented unscientifically obtained data (such as antidotal), or often just an ideological argument based on such things as American freedom or even religious claims of God's intent that humans had dominion over the earth and all its creatures.
If I had to succinctly summarize most of those fights, I'd say they were a struggle between those who thought the WDFW's job was to conserve wildlife in Washington vs those who thought the WDFW's job was to manage the historical harvesting of wildlife. OTOH, I did note an unfortunate tendency of WDFW top management to make a "safe" decision out of fear that the department might be sued otherwise. |
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starcrafttom
Joined: 07 Nov 2003 Posts: 7887 City/Region: marysville
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1984
C-Dory Model: 27 Cruiser
Vessel Name: to be decided later
Photos: Susan E
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Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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smckean (Tosca) we are just going to have to agree to disagree about how delusional are and leave it at that.. So how's boating? |
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smckean (Tosca)
Joined: 18 Jan 2014 Posts: 975 City/Region: Guemes Island (Anacortes)
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Tosca
Photos: Tosca
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Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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Tom, I imagine you and I will need to agree to disagree about many things....
Boating is non-existent. For many reasons, I suspect that the first time Tosca will float once again will be when I launch her in order to head to Friday Harbor for the CDGT in May.
P.S. But I am preparing for the shrimp weekends. I hope to go all 3 weekends; I just need to figure out my strategy for where and for how long. I think I will head for the south of Lopez on the 2nd weekend to avoid opening day crowds. Luckily, I launch right here on the island so I am unlikely to have ramp problems. |
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T.R. Bauer
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 1736 City/Region: Wasilla
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 1993
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Whisperer
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Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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C-Wolfe wrote: | T.R. Bauer wrote: | Harvested 5 gallons of tails this weekend. |
Where did you go? I tore the boat apart all winter long, been trying to get it back together the last few weeks, should be ready to go out by the end of the weekend. Looking forward to go shrimping next week, I was boatless for the last few years and looking forward to go back to the sound. |
Passage Canal was good to us. |
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