Torqeedo 1003 as Kicker/dinghy motor

journey on · Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 6:56 pm Post subject:

OK. Bob. lets go through my numbers, 2 posts above. I'm guessing at the origin of your statements, but let's try.

1. I'm not sure where you get the loss of 90%. I tried to show how little HP one uses when one was traveling at your best speed, which I got from your first post above. You gave a motor reading of 215 watts. You mentioned that reading is the input wattmeter, which equates to the INPUT power. I figured shaft OUTPUT HP as follows:

I rounded 215 to 200 watts. The relationship is linear.

Torqueedo motor efficiency is 0.48, as shown on their spec chart.

746 watts = 1 hp (got this in high school, hope it hasn't changed)

So, if the question is how does 200 watts get to 1/8 HP, the answer is:

200 W (INPUT) x 0.48 (motor eff.) / 746 (w/HP) = 0.128 HP (OUTPUT), which is about 1/8 HP.

For 215 watts, make that about 1/7 HP. That shows how little power it takes to drive a dinghy as slow speeds. And why water transport is so efficient and cheap

If it's something else, I don't know.

2. Now on to your next statement; 1 HP is 7000 watts.

I believe you were looking at the statement that three (3) HP OUT is equivalent to 7500 watts INPUT. I used the following rationale:

A good internal combustion gasoline engine is 30% efficient, supported by several articles from Google; just to check the latest numbers. And energy is energy, that is electrical is equivalent to thermal. And I used a typical small outboard with a shaft output of 3 HP, which is the standard method of measuring engine output.

So now one has:

3 HP (OUTPUT) x 746 watts/HP = 2236 watts which gives equivalent Output Wattage.

Just as I took the input power of 200 watts above and translated it to output power, I can do the inverse for the gasoline motor. Output to input is as follows:

2236 W (output)/0.30 (gas engine efficiency) = 7460 Watts (thermal INPUT), which is directly comparable to the Torqueedo wattmeter.

3. Another try at the 90% question. For a 100% discharge, the Torqueedo spec says 500 cycles reduce the capacity 25%. Not my number, Torqueedo's.

I hope I answered your questions. All I'm trying to do is offer some thoughts and numbers to show what the Torqueedo thinghy is doing. I'm not trying to present a case for or against. I think the numbers are interesting and show how the electric outboard works in a real world. And offer some basis for making a rational decision. God knows I've made enough irrational ones.

However, I have a few thoughts on the way C-Brats are approaching re-charging the Li nmc battery. There is an article on Li batteries. Please read Sec 4 of this Wikipedia article. While the battery will accept a charge better than a lead-acid battery, there are other considerations such as balancing and especially heat. The factory has worked this out; I'm not sure if a generic e-bay charger would work. Their charging curves show a current phase, a voltage phase and a float phase, remarkable similar to a lead acid battery. And Li batteries can be dangerous, as Boeing found out as well as the Chevvy Volt and Tesla.

Enough, the weekend is approaching, Boris

Aurelia · Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 1:28 pm Post subject:

We had the first chance to test our 1003 model on the boat Sunday morning.

Location:

Liberty Bay in Poulsbo
Sunny and glassy (no wind)
tide not a factor (high peak)

We started with the battery at 99% and tested slower to faster so the range estimates taken from the display would be a bit higher if we had started with that specific speed from the beginning.

With our heavily loaded 19 angler (2.5 adults,full fuel, and loads of stuff) we saw the following numbers:

30 watts = 1.2mph - 1kn - 17 hours on standard battery 20.4 statute mile range estimate
60 watts = 1.6mph - 1.4kn - 8.5 hours on standard battery 13.6 statute mile range estimate
97 watts = 2mph - 1.7kn - 5 hours on standard battery 10 statute mile range estimate
199 watts = 2.5mph - 2.2kn - 2.5 hours on standard battery 6.25 statute mile range estimate
509 watts = 3.3mph - 2.9kn - 1.1 hours on standard battery 3.63 statute mile range estimate
937 watts = 3.9mph - 3.4kn - 30 minutes on standard battery 1.95 statute mile range estimate

30 watts is the standard charge rate from the included charger whether it is connected to 120v AC or 12v DC. We will charge the battery from the house batteries on the boat and because it can charge while running, one could run at the 30 watts rate for a looooong time or just keep it connected to extend range at a higher speed.

60 watts is an estimate of the fast charge rate (I don't currently have one to test) for the available 85w fast charger. This higher charge rate is directly from an AC source or a higher voltage DC source at 24v+. The details of that DC feed are in the works to be tested but my first step-up converter turned out to be a dud. Range extending at this charge rate should also be possible.

We were happy with the thrust provided by this motor for our 19 and no longer have ANY anxiety about using it for a backup motor. The limited speed of less than 4mph means we will not affectively go against a strong current but that will never be necessary. We will have to think more like a sailboat when relying on the Torqeedo. It will be more than capable of pushing us to safety and away from dangers as we motor for the nearest safe anchorage and ride the tides as needed.

The approximately 6 mile range at 2.5mph is really the sweet spot for us and the distances we are normally dealing with in the Puget Sound and BC. With a charging cord connected, we could always stop for a while at the first safe spot we reach and try to "fix" the issue we are having while the range grows slowly back toward the 100% mark again. Our house bank could charge the Torqeedo battery at least twice more without any trouble. When our safety is concerned, our urgency to get there is no longer a factor.

Now I just need to refine the motor mounting.....

Aurelia · Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:03 pm Post subject:

Most informative company video for the 503/1003 model to date:

Mentions 12v charging and other details that earlier releases never mentioned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7f8u5_pj64

Ray · Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 4:03 pm Post subject:

The most compelling part of that video is when he dunked the whole shebang in 3ft of water!!!!

Man, I wish I was made of money.....

thataway · Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 4:21 pm Post subject:

Thank you for posting the link. No way my Toqueedo is going for a swim….but nice to know just in case???

Aurelia · Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 12:40 pm Post subject:

We had a chance to put the 1003 on our new 14ft Kaboat dinghy and take it out in the harbor for the evening.

With the three of us on board, and the motor at 97% charge, it was able to push the boat to a top speed of 5.6mph and cruise at 5 mph for an estimated range of 4.5 miles. Throttling down to 3mph increased the range to over 17 miles. We ran all over Gig Harbor and outside the harbor a bit to get some rougher water and it felt really good to us. I dropped the girls off on the beach and throttled it up to 7.2 mph with just me in the boat. It was actually planning at that speed and it seemed like the prop is really the limiting factor in that situation and not the "power" of the motor. They climbed back in and we cruised back toward the launch at full throttle and various speeds between 3 and 5mph followed by some more solo running back near the launch dock. We ended the day with 46 percent charge remaining having traveled just under 5 miles and were really happy with the way it powered the Kaboat. Success and not much noise. Being able to charge it onboard from 12v or shore power means it will provide the range we need easily to explore bays and anchorages. Solar panel shopping now.

Greg

Aurelia · Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 12:51 pm Post subject:

Damage update.

The tilt lock lever on the Torqeedo is a stainless steel blade the pivots down to engage a small notch molded into the aluminum engine mount. It looks fine in theory but with the battery on the motor, the amount of force on that piece is worrysome. For that reason, I hook a strap to the engine and strap it forward on the C-dory while traveling to provide added support and reduce any flexing and bouncing.

Well....

We put the 1003 on the back of our Lund for a quick run and drove 15 minutes down the road at less than 50mph with the Torqeedo on the tilt lock with the battery in place. It was bent and stuck by the time we reached the launch. I was able to bend it slightly back into place with a crescent wrench but now it's even weaker. That lever really should only be used to tilt the motor when NOT moving by land or water. I may just yank it off and fashion a simple tilt block to hang from a cord and use instead.

Greg

Aurelia · Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:28 am Post subject:

Recent Panbo article about the new wireless TorqTrac phone/tablet accessory for this motor.

http://www.panbo.com/archives/2015/01/torqtrac_torqeedo_electric_outboards_get_app_monitoring_more.html

thataway · Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:05 am Post subject:

Never thought about using the Torqueedo on my Fatty Knees, but if itis good enough for Ben, its good enough for me...Interesting app!

thataway · Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 8:42 pm Post subject:

We had a chance to use the Torqeedo 1003 on our 9' air floor inflatable (West Marine, about 63# wt). The question was how it would work out, in daily use as a dinghy--going to shore at least 3 times a day for the dog, and excursions around the harbor. At a speed equal to a fast row, it was using about 35 watts. An average day's use was 10% of battery charge. This included several "excursions, of at least 2 miles, as well as the 100 yards or so to the dinghy dock. The battery can be 100% discharged (Li,Fe phosphate battery). Two hours of battery charging (which is our average at Powell--and about half of what we used at the Catalina two harbors- Isthmus), would recoup this 10% charge--or one hour would give about 5% charge. (Probably a little more since the total charge time for a fully discharged battery is advertised at 14 hours with the 110 volt charger).

Our conclusion was that this was viable as a dinghy motor. There were lots of questions from other boaters. We did see one other similar Torqeedo also in use as a dinghy motor. The advantages were also the light weight of components (no one piece more than about 12 lbs, total package about 20 lbs. and no pull start, spark plugs, fuel, varnish in the carb etc).

sebastien · Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:22 am Post subject: filling my head...

I've been filling my head with info about the Torqueedo travel (and the epropulsion spirit 1.0)
I have one single question I don't seem to see:

what length shaft do you have for using it as a functional kicker motor straight on the back of the 22 cruiser transom? (i'll also be using it on the west marine PRU 3 of course)

thanks

thataway · Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 2:08 pm Post subject:

For an electric outboard the shaft length is measured from the top of the clamp plate (on the transom) to the center of. the prop shaft. On my 1003--earlier version of 1103, with smaller battery.-- it is 62.5 cm. This propelled my Caracal Cat and C Dory 22 easily. However, the Caracal has the mount on the swim step--avout equal to the transom--and uses a mid shaft length motor. The same on the 22, but on an articulating/lowering mount

On the dinghy I think you would really have a problem with shallow water. The 62.5 CM shaft has to be pulled up all of the way when you beach the dinghy--and is lower. in the water than a 15" short shaft outboard engine.

We have 7 years use, and the battery seems to be holding up well. We only ran it down more than 50% one time--and that was when we had the medical emergency at Powell and a boater had to be medeviced out. There we ran the motor at full speed for several miles with two in the boat. Probably total of 8 miles that day before charging and the battery was at about 20%.

In the mean time several of our friends converted over to the Toqeedo from gas outboards, because of difficulty starting, fuel issues etc.

sebastien · Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 6:32 pm Post subject:

it sounds like to be able to tilt it out of the water fully on the dinghy I need the short shaft but to get it low enough in the water to function well on the transom of the 22 I'll be looking at getting an adjustable bracket because with a short shaft it'll sit high in the water.

I guess I was hoping for a compromise shaft length
that would work on both transoms without boat modifications.

thataway · Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:59 pm Post subject:

Even if the blades are not fully below the transom, they will propel the boat forward fairly well. Reverse--will not work, and in the Torqeedo the reverse is turning the motor around 180*. I have not tried the 62.5" shaft directly on the transom of the 25. It would be fairly easy for me to take it out to the boat and see where it sits in reference to the bottom of the boat, and how far out from the hull.

croakz · Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 11:59 pm Post subject:

I have a E-propulsion Spirit 1.0 Plus coming and hoping to use it on a dinghy and my 22 Angler. They say the Short shaft is good for 15.7" to 19.7" transoms so hopefully it'll be a good compromise.

https://www.epropulsion.com/spirit-1/

(the FAQ sections lists transom heights for the XS, S, and L models)