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C-22 without shore power - will I regret it? Easy to add?
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T.R. Bauer



Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 1726
City/Region: Wasilla
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 1993
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Whisperer
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shore power or not really depends no how you use the boat. If where you use it has no shore power, it's a pretty easy choice. I wouldn't not let the lack of shore power deter you from a buying a good boat and as others have noted, it is pretty easy to install and not a huge amount of money, as far as boat money goes.
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Marco Flamingo



Joined: 09 Jul 2015
Posts: 1154
City/Region: Seattle
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 16 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Limpet
Photos: Limpet
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't have it on my C-Dory. Have it for the first time on my other boat. Safety checking the electrical set up by the prior owner lead me to researching Electric Shock Drowning (EDS). Shore power, or a running a generator or invertor at anchor, can have serious consequences when diving off the swim step. Adding shore power, and getting it right, or safety checking existing shore power is more complicated than I thought. Check out this website for a start.

https://www.electricshockdrowning.org/preventing-esd.html
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bobjarrard



Joined: 03 Oct 2010
Posts: 458
City/Region: Boulder City
State or Province: NV
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:44 pm    Post subject: A SP suggestion Reply with quote

I had a Cape Dory 36 and did not like the shore power plug on the cabin side. I changed over to a plug inside the boat just below and to the right of a port light of which there were many. No corosion of any kind after 5 years +. I also had another boat where the shore power cord was hard wired into the boat and then extended to the dock - I know that the power pedestals are not always so great but that fire is outside my hull and 10' or more away from me. On fancy rigs, the cord is on an auto wind reel like an air or water hose.
Bob Jarrard
PS: You can change out the 110 V plug on a Honda 2000 to a twst lock, much better connection and it will not pull loose. BJ
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smckean (Tosca)



Joined: 18 Jan 2014
Posts: 974
City/Region: Guemes Island (Anacortes)
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Tosca
Photos: Tosca
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keep in mind that EDS is a much bigger danger in fresh water than in salt water. Not recommended in either situation of course.)
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Sandy McKean
Purchased Tosca in 2014
Re-powered to Yammi 200 in 2015
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hardee



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 12632
City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

smckean (Tosca) wrote:
Keep in mind that EDS is a much bigger danger in fresh water than in salt water. Not recommended in either situation of course.)


Interesting Sandy. Care to expand on that? I never thought of that before.

Harvey
SleepyC Moon


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smckean (Tosca)



Joined: 18 Jan 2014
Posts: 974
City/Region: Guemes Island (Anacortes)
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Tosca
Photos: Tosca
PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Interesting Sandy. Care to expand on that? I never thought of that before.

As I'm sure you know, salt water is a fair conductor of electricity (due to the Na and Cl and other ions). OTOH, fresh water is a pretty good insulator. Intuitively, you might think that salt water would be the worse danger since it conducts, but in fact the opposite is true.

The reason? All electric currents represent a source of electrons that travel thru some medium seeking their way back to the source. So say a boat or a dock is "leaking" electricity into the water. At that point a voltage gradient is established between that point and all paths the electricity could and does take back to the source. The voltage gradient diminishes as the distance from that point increases. If you as a swimmer are near enough to that point where the voltage gradient is strong, since the electrons take any and all paths "down" the voltage gradient, one such path is through your body. Since the amps that flow (number of electrons) are equal to voltage divided by resistance, more amps (or more likely milliamps) flow in the paths of least resistance. In salt water there are lots of low resistance paths to take through the water since salt water presents a low resistance compared to the relatively high resistance path through you; so very little amps go through you. In fresh water you become a lower resistance path relative to the water paths since the fresh water conducts poorly, so more current will flow through you.

Note injury or death can happen in either fresh or salt water, but you have to be very near the source of the electricity leak in salt water for enough voltage potential to exist between one part of your body and another for enough amps to flow through you to hurt you. In fresh water the voltage gradient extends much further out from the source.
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hardee



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 12632
City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Sandy, and yes, we are nothing but a big old (well some of us) bag of salt water. Thanks for the enlightenment. I had never thought that one through.

Harvey
SleepyC Moon

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smckean (Tosca)



Joined: 18 Jan 2014
Posts: 974
City/Region: Guemes Island (Anacortes)
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Tosca
Photos: Tosca
PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No problem.

BTW, one aspect perhaps some folks don't realize is that someone in the water doesn't have to be touching anything to get a shock (or electrocution). It is the voltage difference between one part of your body and another part that drives the electrons (amps) through your body. If you think about it, while you are in the water every part of your body is touching something (the water). Some folks get confused by this since we've all been told since we were kids that the danger is when you touch a metal fixture in the bathroom, or stand on the ground in bare feet while touching metal. But in water all of your body is in contact with a conductor (the water) and given the voltage gradient that extends out from the source of the electrical "leak", there will be a voltage difference between the part of your body that is closest to the source and the parts of your body that are farther away. If that voltage differential is strong enough to drive enough electrons through your heart, you're dead!
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20779
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To expand slightly on Sandy's excellent discussion, I will add that it does not take heart damage to cause electro shock drowning. Only 15 milliamps will cause skeletal muscle paralysis-and this will lead to drowning, with out primary heart stoppage. Muscles depend on electrical potential difference between the inner and outer cellular fluids to cause contractions. Also there is an effect on nerve conduction.

This is why the most recent marina regulations have a much more sensitive ground fault interruption system. New construction must have "ground-fault protection set to open at trip level currents exceeding 30 mA”. There was some "confusion since the first code standards said "Less than 30 mA" leakage. The "old "standard was 100 mA. There are some marinas which have the GFP set at 4 to 6 mA. Those will be the safest. However many of our boats have "leaky" appliances, such as microwaves, where there may be 5 to 10 mA leakage--with a boat which is wired properly. If you experience this problem (tripping the ground fault at the power pedestal in the marina. Unplug appliances, and turn off the water heater and battery charger. If it trips still, there is most likely a problem in your boat's wiring.

Be safe--stay alive!

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Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL
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hardee



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 12632
City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WOW Great information. Thank you Sandy and Bob.

Have always known not to swim in marinas and had one ambulance call to a marina in Portland years ago.

Harvey
SleepyC Moon

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