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MikeR
Joined: 21 Apr 2013 Posts: 475 City/Region: Mill Creek
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2016
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: MikeR
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Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:18 am Post subject: |
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Ditto on the above Merc comments, still loving my 2016 CT 90 with 430 some trouble free hrs. This current version came out in 2014 as noted above, larger displacement, lower weight, and the optional CT gearcase swings a big ol' prop. Also super quiet, smooth, easy to do regular service (Merc even sells handy dandy 100 hr and 300 hr maintenance kits with everything needed to do it yourself). The 90 hp is more power than I need, but you also can't go wrong with the 115 for same weight!
-Mike _________________ 22' C-Dory Cruiser (2016)
16' C-Dory Angler (1989)
10' C-Dory Row Boat (1995) |
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JimTid
Joined: 09 Dec 2013 Posts: 19 City/Region: Jacksonville
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2003
Vessel Name: Lucy
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Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:48 am Post subject: G2 ETEC |
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I repowered my Rosboro 246 with a 300HP G2 ETEC. This was a big block motor. The 150 HP and lower are small block ETEC's. I never liked the two stroke motor. It uses less fuel but more oil. It has more odor than a 4 stroke. It is louder than a 4 stroke and at a higher pitch. It has a slight studder at half throttle having to do with the fuel delivery programming. I replaced twin 115 Suzuki's with the single 300. The weight reduction on the transom upset the handling. The boat would bow steer under certain conditions. There was a severe yaw to the left out of the hole. I had to add trim tabs. Oh ya, at 17 hours on the new motor a fuel line popped off and soaked the insulation on the inside of the motor cover, leaving me stranded. The cost of the new motor was $28,600 installed. I spent another $700 on the trim tabs.
I think a Yamaha 115 would be my first choice for a 22 Cdory. |
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san juanderer
Joined: 12 Aug 2014 Posts: 235 City/Region: Stanwood
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1990
C-Dory Model: 22 Angler
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Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:32 pm Post subject: Merc command thrust |
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Drewbird and MikeR,
Is the use of the permatrim still needed ?
I see pics of Jennykatz without the permatrim.
thanks |
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DrewbirdII
Joined: 29 Sep 2012 Posts: 53 City/Region: fanny bay
State or Province: BC
C-Dory Year: 1989
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Drewbird II
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Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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San, I don't think you require a permatrim for your average cruising as it does cause a bit of drag on boat. The 90CT motor jumps on plain even if you don't trim the motor down. If you run the boat very light with one person it can actually torque the boat over to the right if you hit the throttle to fast. I installed a permatrim last year and found it steers better in big swells off the west coast, and at slow speeds I can plain effortlessly with heavy loads. I have fuel meters on the motor and the boat that are very accurate and I find that the permatrim cost a bit on fuel at higher speeds but I like it.
Jim. |
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colbysmith
Joined: 02 Oct 2011 Posts: 4578 City/Region: Madison
State or Province: WI
C-Dory Year: 2009
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Traveler
Photos: C-Traveler and Midnight-Flyer
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Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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I have permatrim on my boat, and it made a big difference in pitch of the boat. It use to ride pretty nose high. The permatrim allows you to get the bow down a bit more. Colby |
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A Fishin C Guest
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Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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IMO
permatrim highly recommended
trim tabs absolutely a necessity
both is best. |
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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 20866 City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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I agree, having run both a C Dory 25 and 22 without Permatrims, and then put them on. Both the Permatrim and the Tabs add to the seaworthiness of the boat. The amount of top ends speed is minimal--maybe one mph.
The key to all of this is the Permitrim running on the surface of the water wen on a plane. If it is buried then the motor is too low in the water.
Yes, the boats will run without either (and my first 22 did "OK"--but with the addition of the Permatrim--a lot of difference in rougher water. _________________ Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL |
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jennykatz
Joined: 15 Dec 2003 Posts: 1678 City/Region: naples
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: Little Treasurer
Photos: Jennykatz
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Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:40 pm Post subject: Merc 115 CT |
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We have the cc23 with a115CT merc My boat weighs about 4000 lb with fuel ,water batteries and engine This is for daily driving not camping
The merc CT 115 is the newer version it’s 2.1 L vs the Colbys 1.7 older merc based on the Verado block At 4000 rpm we hit about 20mph 4500rpm about 25mph WOT 5200-5500 rpm over 30 mph ++ At 20 mph we usually get around 4mpg depending on sea conditions The Merc was about$ 1000-1500 less then the Yamaha also merc will extend out of the water more The Merc is also quieter and with bigger prop 15/17 pitch will handle very good around the marina
We did have one problem that was hard to diagnose it was the throttle position sensor it was an easy fix but took a while to figure it out _________________ retired 8/08 from UAL, still working pt tm
Duck c-22 cruiser sold 6/23/08
06 Venture Cruiser with merc115CT
00 cd16 cruiser honda 40 sold 3/12 |
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MikeR
Joined: 21 Apr 2013 Posts: 475 City/Region: Mill Creek
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2016
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: MikeR
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Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:12 pm Post subject: Re: Merc command thrust |
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san juanderer wrote: | Drewbird and MikeR,
Is the use of the permatrim still needed ?
I see pics of Jennykatz without the permatrim.
thanks |
Yes, I'd recommend it. Ran my CT90 without for a year, and was happy without it. Added one the following summer and was even happier! It wasn't noticeable much in flat calm water but soon realized heading straight into a short chop I could now go along comfortably at say 4000 RPM without pounding, whereas previously I may have been limited to 3200 RPM in the same conditions without the Permatrim. But I don't have trim tabs either, so if you do maybe you'll do just as well without the Permatrim. But having both is said to be even better.
-Mike |
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Teufelshunde
Joined: 27 Aug 2019 Posts: 139 City/Region: Sebastopol
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 1987
C-Dory Model: 22 Angler
Vessel Name: Fish Wisher
Photos: Fishwisher
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Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:38 am Post subject: |
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I added a permatrim on my 2019 Yamaha 90 and noticed I had to trim the motor more while going past 8-9 knots or it would bow steer starboard. Previously it would bow steer at a higher speed so I’m very happy in chop bow down going slow
I’m assuming along with other advantages trim tabs would allow me to go a little faster without trimming the motor so I don’t bow steer? _________________ What ever you are, be a good one 🇺🇸 |
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ssobol
Joined: 27 Oct 2012 Posts: 3388 City/Region: SW Michigan
State or Province: MI
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: SoBELLE
Photos: SoBelle
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Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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Teufelshunde wrote: | I added a permatrim on my 2019 Yamaha 90 and noticed I had to trim the motor more while going past 8-9 knots or it would bow steer starboard. Previously it would bow steer at a higher speed so I’m very happy in chop bow down going slow
I’m assuming along with other advantages trim tabs would allow me to go a little faster without trimming the motor so I don’t bow steer? |
The idea with the tabs and the permatrim is to get the nose down. The further the bow is down, the more the chance of bow steer. How you get there doesn't really matter. Tabs, permatrim, or adding a bunch of weight to the bow will result in the same effect.
The apparent advantage of permatrim over tabs is the amount of deflection required. Less deflection for the same result equal less drag. On my boat I normally run the tabs at about 70% (according to the indicator) to get the bow where I want it. In some situations I need to run the tabs full down. This is bad for the fuel economy and knocks about 6-7 mph off the top speed. The permatrim should have a more powerful effect per unit of trim.
I'm going to put a permatrim on this spring, so we'll see what the difference is. |
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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 20866 City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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Bow steering is undesirable. I have not had any of the C Dorys bow steer, unless the bow was purposefully pushed down with trim tabs or Permatrim. Going down wind and waves, trim tabs should be retracted--maybe even fully. You want to try and have the prop thrust parallel to the surface of the water, and the Permatrim running just at the surface, not submerged. Check to see where the permatrim is at your planing speed. |
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hank clow
Joined: 13 Aug 2011 Posts: 93 City/Region: L'Anse
State or Province: MI
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Meri Aura
Photos: Meri Aura
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Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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Repowered my 2003 with a Yamaha 90 in 2017. Very pleased with the results.
Pat Clow
Meri Aura |
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Teufelshunde
Joined: 27 Aug 2019 Posts: 139 City/Region: Sebastopol
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 1987
C-Dory Model: 22 Angler
Vessel Name: Fish Wisher
Photos: Fishwisher
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Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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thataway wrote: | Bow steering is undesirable. I have not had any of the C Dorys bow steer, unless the bow was purposefully pushed down with trim tabs or Permatrim. Going down wind and waves, trim tabs should be retracted--maybe even fully. You want to try and have the prop thrust parallel to the surface of the water, and the Permatrim running just at the surface, not submerged. Check to see where the permatrim is at your planing speed. |
I have to trim/tilt the motor to bring the bow up in following seas or above 8 knots on flat water with my permatrim now installed.
If you dropped your motor down above planing speed your boat wouldn’t bow steer?
When my prop shaft is level (trim up a little) - the bottom of my boat is level with the anti ventilation plate and from what I can tell my permatrim is at the surface at planing speed.
I do not bow steer until I reach around 10 knots ( not trimming ).
Sorry if I’m not making myself clear - just wondering if I’m having a problem with the height of my motor but I seem to make it work with trimming my motor up as I gain speed in smooth seas of course. |
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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 20866 City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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To get max efficiency out of any outboard boat, I get it on a plane, about where I want a cruising speed. I leave the throttle fixed and trim the engine up or down to where the speed is greatest, with no change of the throttle. For this I would leave the trim tabs at up position.
I rarely if ever run with the engine all of the way trimmed down. I will trim down when going up on a plane, and then pull the engine back until the boat is level and running at best speed for the conditions.... |
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