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Micahbigsur@msn.com
Joined: 27 May 2019 Posts: 484 City/Region: Big Sur
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sierra
Photos: Sierra
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Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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Someone's rebuilt core long block or brand new Honda factory long block, there is a big difference. _________________ Micah Curtis and Dana, RN
2003 C-dory 25 Sierra, 200, 9.9 and 2.5 Suzukis
2012 R25 SC Sequoia (2015-2018)
1978 Folkes 38 SV Audacious (2006-2015)
Micah, KJ6GUF, Dana, KJ6GXG |
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Robert H. Wilkinson
Joined: 26 Jan 2011 Posts: 1235 City/Region: Port Ryerse
State or Province: ON
Vessel Name: Romakeme IV
Photos: Romakeme IV
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Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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Just wondering if syncing would be any problem with a new engine in tandem with a 12 year - 700hr. one? _________________ Talk to me and I will listen-- but if its not about boats or fishing all I will hear is bla,bla,bla,yada,yada,zzzzzzzz |
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gulfcoast john
Joined: 14 Dec 2012 Posts: 989 City/Region: PENSACOLA
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2010
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Cat O' Mine
Photos: CAT O' MINE
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Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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Another vote for cash for the blem with warranty. When you sell, you will recoup much more of your cost than you would with your other options. Your buyer will be much more confident. You’ll get back out there much sooner and you’ll be more confident in your new engine. Tough break, but at least you and your buds weren’t et by a shark.
Make sure your rigger plugs the new engine N2k output plug into your existing N2k network and you’ll be able to monitor a constant digital readout of your engine temp (and any number of other engine parameters you choose) on your MFD display. Dealers would of course rather sell you two new $500 Honda gauges and pretend to know nothing….NOTHING! about this. Once the rigging tube is crammed full of cables and lines etc it’s hard to snake a N2K adapter through all that, but I did it, and you could do it on the other engine. Of the 4 tiny shielded wires, only the blue and white ones carry the data so that’s all you have to cut and snake through Then reconnect with 3M dot splices to the network plug inside the transom.
My engines always run within 2 degrees of each other at all speeds. I’m surprised the thermostats are that sensitive. If one goes 5 degrees higher than the other or over 134 degrees I know something is wrong. We had an overheat alarm at idle at only 126 degrees in a Canada canal….I was suspecting a faulty sensor, but sure enough some gooey muck was partially obstructing the intake. Cleared the muck and cleared the fault. That makes me suspect that the alarm programming parameters take RPM into account (or GPS speed?). In the FL Keys there are mats of sea grass everywhere, and by watching the digital temp readouts I have an earlier warning than the alarm and manage not to be surprised by it when it happens. It also helps immensely when running the engine on the flush muffs to know the exact engine temp and rate of increase.
I agree with all who note that the overheat alarms seem to be very conservative across brands. Even with a bad sensor and a bad captain (not you, Conrad), the ECM is a backup that’s going to put the engine in ‘limp home’ mode and it should not be permanently damaged.
Since it’s your money and not mine, I’d suggest looking into the other powerhead to make sure the same mysterious evil forces are not cavorting around within it as well. You could have new twins. They will still be much cheaper than, say, twin baby girls. Or quadruplets.
Here's (hopefully) the Eff off St Johns at 1.8 ft and getting shallow fast with both engines at 129 degrees. Conrad, post a higher-risk pic than this. (last pic, on page 18 of album).
Best of luck!
John
_________________ John and Eileen Highsmith
2010 Tom Cat 255, Cat O' Mine
Yamaha F150, LXF150 |
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cmetzenberg
Joined: 04 Jan 2014 Posts: 367 City/Region: Santa Barbara
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Kanaloa
Photos: Kanaloa
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Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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gulfcoast john wrote: | Another vote for cash for the blem with warranty. When you sell, you will recoup much more of your cost than you would with your other options. Your buyer will be much more confident. You’ll get back out there much sooner and you’ll be more confident in your new engine. Tough break, but at least you and your buds weren’t et by a shark.
Make sure your rigger plugs the new engine N2k output plug into your existing N2k network and you’ll be able to monitor a constant digital readout of your engine temp (and any number of other engine parameters you choose) on your MFD display. Dealers would of course rather sell you two new $500 Honda gauges and pretend to know nothing….NOTHING! about this. Once the rigging tube is crammed full of cables and lines etc it’s hard to snake a N2K adapter through all that, but I did it, and you could do it on the other engine. Of the 4 tiny shielded wires, only the blue and white ones carry the data so that’s all you have to cut and snake through Then reconnect with 3M dot splices to the network plug inside the transom.
My engines always run within 2 degrees of each other at all speeds. I’m surprised the thermostats are that sensitive. If one goes 5 degrees higher than the other or over 134 degrees I know something is wrong. We had an overheat alarm at idle at only 126 degrees in a Canada canal….I was suspecting a faulty sensor, but sure enough some gooey muck was partially obstructing the intake. Cleared the muck and cleared the fault. That makes me suspect that the alarm programming parameters take RPM into account (or GPS speed?). In the FL Keys there are mats of sea grass everywhere, and by watching the digital temp readouts I have an earlier warning than the alarm and manage not to be surprised by it when it happens. It also helps immensely when running the engine on the flush muffs to know the exact engine temp and rate of increase.
I agree with all who note that the overheat alarms seem to be very conservative across brands. Even with a bad sensor and a bad captain (not you, Conrad), the ECM is a backup that’s going to put the engine in ‘limp home’ mode and it should not be permanently damaged.
Since it’s your money and not mine, I’d suggest looking into the other powerhead to make sure the same mysterious evil forces are not cavorting around within it as well. You could have new twins. They will still be much cheaper than, say, twin baby girls. Or quadruplets.
Here's (hopefully) the Eff off St Johns at 1.8 ft and getting shallow fast with both engines at 129 degrees. Conrad, post a higher-risk pic than this. (last pic, on page 18 of album).
Best of luck!
John
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John,
I was planning on plugging the engine in to the existing gauges. My network is NMEA 0183; still possible to buy and mfd and view this data? _________________ Conrad Metzenberg
07' Tomcat 255 "Kanaloa"
87' Boston Whaler Guardian 17 (BlackFlag, 03-14)
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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 20818 City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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cmetzenberg wrote: |
My engines are way past warranty being 07s. I wouldn't rebuild my block. I'd be looking to purchase, what i believe is refered to as, a long block. |
I was referring to if you installed the "new" power heads, instead of a certified or "qualified" mechanici--the the warrantee on the new power head might not be honored--have to have that scoped out. _________________ Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL |
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gulfcoast john
Joined: 14 Dec 2012 Posts: 989 City/Region: PENSACOLA
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2010
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Cat O' Mine
Photos: CAT O' MINE
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Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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Conrad,
Regrets, NMEA 0183 is 1983 technology according to this 2013 article…
https://www.meridianyachtowners.com/threads/nmea-183-vs-nmea-2000-information.6110/
All I remember of NMEA 0183 is infinite frustration with 30 (or was it 60?) or so multi-colored hair-size wires. Your question is whether that 1983 system carries the engine digital temp data output of a 2007 or 2019 Honda BF150.
I don’t know.
My impression is that all the major outboards had N2k data output by mid 2006, depending on serial number (Mercury had their non-compatible proprietary equivalent on my 2004 Regal I/O engine).
The simple 5-pin N2k backbone ($67 retail!) is plug ‘n play simple and carries MUCH more data. From your picture album I assume you have a nice Furuno multifunction display (or any modern chartplotter) that would display all N2k data once you choose it. 0183, doubt it but upgrade for $67 and you can do it in an afternoon.
PM me and I’ll send a leftover N2K backbone to you free.
Sorry for your troubles and hope you get through them with the grit, tolerance and spine you have demonstrated on this site.
I wish I had the knowledge to give you a definitive answer to your very reasonable question. I salute you here,
Good Luck!
John |
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Micahbigsur@msn.com
Joined: 27 May 2019 Posts: 484 City/Region: Big Sur
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sierra
Photos: Sierra
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Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 1:53 am Post subject: |
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All the little 0183 wires are a pain to wire up, especially to more than one device, good riddance. Once you start with a network you will find them very easy and flexable. |
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ssobol
Joined: 27 Oct 2012 Posts: 3376 City/Region: SW Michigan
State or Province: MI
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: SoBELLE
Photos: SoBelle
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Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:00 am Post subject: |
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gulfcoast john wrote: | ,, My impression is that all the major outboards had N2k data output by mid 2006, depending on serial number ... |
Except for a lot of Honda models. The midsize Honda motors only got N2K in the latest iteration (e.g. BF100). The BF100 came out in 2016.
My '08 BF90D does not have it. |
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cmetzenberg
Joined: 04 Jan 2014 Posts: 367 City/Region: Santa Barbara
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Kanaloa
Photos: Kanaloa
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Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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So i've been talking with a dealer in Fresno CA who has a 2006 BF 150. It has under 200hrs and claims to have never been run in saltwater. I asked the guy to send me the alarm history but says that the he already cleared it and that all it had was a couple of high temp alerts. This dealer has terrible reviews on yelp and google. What do you all think? It sketches me out that he cleared the alarms. |
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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 20818 City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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Bad reviews--don't do business. Cleared the alarms--high temp? Why, what temp, and duration. Why was the motor traded in with only the low hours?
If you can find a motor which was traded in, because it was not enough HP for the boat--and it is documented that the owner went from 150 to 200+--that would probably be the best scenario... |
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localboy
Joined: 30 Sep 2006 Posts: 4656 City/Region: Lake Stevens via Honolulu
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: 'Au Kai (Ocean Traveler)
Photos: 'AU KAI
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Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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“...iz no problem...”. (With thick Russian accent)
I’m always cynical of someone, who is trying to sell me something, telling me the item is fine...yet they cleared the proof that it is. Perhaps it’s my lack of faith in mankind due to my job... _________________ "We can go over there...behind the 'little one'....."
Wife to her husband pointing @ us...from the bow of their 50-footer; Prideaux Haven 2013 |
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cmetzenberg
Joined: 04 Jan 2014 Posts: 367 City/Region: Santa Barbara
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Kanaloa
Photos: Kanaloa
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Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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thataway wrote: | Bad reviews--don't do business. Cleared the alarms--high temp? Why, what temp, and duration. Why was the motor traded in with only the low hours?
If you can find a motor which was traded in, because it was not enough HP for the boat--and it is documented that the owner went from 150 to 200+--that would probably be the best scenario... |
That is their claim. |
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westward
Joined: 18 Feb 2005 Posts: 718 City/Region: Seattle
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1985
C-Dory Model: 16 Angler
Vessel Name: TBD
Photos: Steady Eddy
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Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | I asked the guy to send me the alarm history but says that the he already cleared it and that all it had was a couple of high temp alerts. This dealer has terrible reviews on yelp and google. What do you all think? |
I believe you know what we all think...This is a "trust your gut" moment. |
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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 20818 City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | That is their claim. | . That the boat was underpowered 13 years later? Maybe--maybe not. Could have been a new owner.
If they can put you in touch with the previous owner of the motor--both when it was sold, and more recent owner who changed it out--then OK.
In our area used 150 Hondas in good shape, are not very common. |
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cmetzenberg
Joined: 04 Jan 2014 Posts: 367 City/Region: Santa Barbara
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Kanaloa
Photos: Kanaloa
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