Performance Differences between C-22 and C-25

[ssobol]

My 22 has a fridge. Hot water can be made on the stove. Generator can run the AC if needed.

Never noticed any heeling when both of us sit at the dinette. The seats can get uncomfortable after sitting for a long time. I put this down to the vertical backrest (angle between backrest and seat bottom is 90 deg).

Only thing we miss on the 22 is a separate head.

FWIW, my generator gets stored in a covered plastic tub in the cockpit when not in use. Container doubles as a table. The gen is mounted on a stand on a swim step when operating.

[thataway]

We have owned two 22's and each time gone up to a 25. The first 22 was on the West coast, and then a 25 on the West Coast (kept a Van in the same storage, and we flew out). We have had the Tom Cat--sold because of my health (heart and back), then a 22 and now a fully tricked out 25. Frankly at this point I think the current 25 is the best of all the C Dorys we have owned. We have chest type Refrigerator and Freezer. We use the shower--(changed to a 2.5 gallon quick heat water heater, under the galley, and it works great!). Composting head. Full electronics,

We take two one month trips each year now, and don't really want to come off the water. (only do because of medical appointments). The negative about the 25, is that the Tom Cat does handle waves and wakes better. The Tom Cat is much faster. Anyone cruising at 10 to 12 mph is at a "hump" speed and not getting the most out of their boat. I have a fuel flow gauge, and a prior owner make a fuel vs speed graph and chart--the boats loading makes some difference. But with full water tank (aft) and 3/4 fuel tank today, averaging 18 mph we were getting about 2.8 miles per gallon. If we run displacement speeds in the 6 mph category, we are getting 5 to 6 miles per gallon.

We tow with a Yukon XL (1500 truck chassis)--highest tow capacity, added extra cooler, and air lift bags over the rear axle. Electric over hydraulic brakes. We are getting 8 to 9 miles per gallon in the truck. Towing the 23 we got 12 to 13. No two we get 18 to 20 on the highway.

We feel that the 25 is slightly better in chop than the 22--in any of the boat you have to get the bow down--use trim tabs, as well as the Permatrim foil.

Good luck in the hunt. If you see a good deal--don't delay --buy today~!

[Two Bears]

WoW!!
This getting better than “twins vs single” discussion. And, we have not heard from Harvey yet.

My only addition is that a 25 owner told me she could pass her mate in the asile without one of them sliding into the helm or dinette seat. That we cannot do in our 22. That waiting can get on your nerves and make things seem very - very small.

Chuck

[localboy]

This is a true story that I've posted before.
When we first looking at buying a boat, we went to the Everett boat show. They only had a 22 model available. We walked on board and into the cabin. First thing out of The Admiral's mouth, "Oh, hell no. This is too small". True story.

[Micahbigsur@msn.com]

We just crossed the Monterey bay this morning with 4 on board, 8 knot wind off the bow 22 miles and about 10 miles out in the center. There was a NW 5 foot swell at around 10 sec. with a southwest swell at 3' at 15 sec. As our boat is pretty new to us I was surprised at how well it handled the somewhat confusing seas at around 14 knots, with a only the occasional smack. Our boat is almost extremely cruising heavy so I am sure that is a factor. Our fuel gph was way up compared to Shasta lake that was like glass, as sailors we are still trying to sort out trim tabs, motor angles and sea state on a power boat. Not at all like trimming the sails....hmm, maybe not so different after all!
We saw one Humpback whale cruising along that made everyone's day.

[kaelc]

[hardee]

Hey Chuck, This was only started yesterday, and I got busy working on the boat. Hope you weren't holding your breath

22 vs 25, WOW. A new one to add to the list -- twins vs single and Inny vs outty. I like diversity oh, and did I mention double dulpicit redundancy

All good info so far. Best -- go find a 22 and a 25 to get a ride on.You have to get how they feel. The 22 has a "one butt hall way", the 25 has a shower and head. On the 22 one or two can put it on like a favorite slipper, the 25 a hot shower and "nukked" cinnibun for breakfast is easy.

You really need to try them both on.

I have had my 22 in big water on plenty of occasions.
>6-8 ft plus following seas -- Strait of Georgia (my first big wave experience on the 22).
>4-6 ft head seas, about 3 hours worth, Knight Inlet (side by side with a CD-25). A lot of hobby horsing, low speed, over steep short coupled waves.
>4-6 ft mostly beam seas, taken on the fore quarter, Juan de Fuca
>3 - 5 ft mixed, both head seas and following depending on the place and time, San Francisco Bay and Western Delta with a mix of 22 and 25 D-Dorys.

In none of these occasions did I feel unsafe or in jeopardy. Are they comfortable, no, not necessarily, but the boat will handle them. I am generally by myself, so I don't have another "stomach" to consider.

Do I think the 25 is a better boat? The point was made, length makes the difference. I think length and weight can make a difference, but if you are buying a boat, you should have your planned use in mind, AND, you should try it out. Try it on for size, for practicality and ability.

Buy what you want, it will be cheaper than buying and then changing in a couple of years, BUT, nothing is permanent, you can change if the situation warrants.

Best, Oh and always consider twins

Harvey
SleepyC

[colbysmith]

Harvey summed it up nicely, as have many others. It really boils down to your own personality and what your comfort level is. Strictly performance, I believe both boats handle about the same. Individually depends upon the outboard you put on them as well. I found on our Alaska cruise, that we both got pretty much the same fuel efficiency at displacement speed. The 25 has a little more than twice the fuel capacity, so of course it can go at least twice as far between fill ups. At planing speeds, you are looking at a little less efficiency in the 25.
We have also been talking a lot about comfort in this thread. Some enjoy tent camping, some enjoy a big roomy RV with all the comforts. My wife is ok with our porta potty, and we manage to slide by each other in the boat. And we're not exactly small people! Water can be heated on a stove if the camp shower bags don't get it hot enough. However, my wife will not use a female urinal or 5 gal bucket with a bag in it. She has her limits! I have taken 3-5 others out on the boat, but not for long cruises. We all manage and enjoy the time.
However, there are some more aspects you may want to consider. This morning my wife and I were talking about if we would ever upgrade to the 25 someday. We trailer a lot. We just had Blue Days (a 25) spend two days with us, and it was the first time my wife got to see how they get on and off their boat on the trailer. Every 25 I've traveled with, also carry a step ladder to get on and off their boat. My wife and I just step on the trailer wheel fender and swing our legs over the gunnel. As Rosanne asked me this morning, so we'd have to load our cooler, and all our gear up a ladder and then over the splash well or gunnel? The 25 will require you to lift gear a lot higher to get it in the boat, if you do it while it's trailered.
Again, it really comes down to how you plan to use the boat, how many will be traveling with you, and for how long. How often are you going to be "boaterhoming". For us, the 22 fits our uses quite well and as Tom said in the beginning, we are quite happy with our little boat. Yet, there are others the are happy in their CD16 or 19. And I'll be the first to envy the improved comforts in the 25. But at higher maintenance and operating costs.
Anyway, just a few more cents of my thoughts. Colby

[thataway]

Getting gear aboard: A 4 step ladder will work on the the swim platform, especially with a small stepping stool...no climbing over the trailer however. We carry a longer ladder for both getting on and off the bow at a launch ramp. I back the trailer down to near the water, and Marie takes it the rest of the way while I drive the boat off. We get most of supplies aboard easily using the ladder--did on both the 22 and 25. For heavy objects there is the davit hoist--used regularly for the dinghy as well as the freezer etc--but we are "older".

[smckean (Tosca)]

[Micahbigsur@msn.com]

Rainman makes a portable watermaker a Honda 2000 will run, a very simple to use system.
I am in the process of adding a Spectra Ventura built in watermaker in the space our old water heater was in before we installed the more compact Bosch below the galley sink. Our 03 CD 25 has a water tank forward that we checked useable capacity at 18 gallons. When we are at anchor we use both salt and tank water and use about 18 gallons of fresh water every 6 days if we are careful. The Spectra should easily net about 12 gallons every 2 days using our lightweight solar system that powers the whole boat including the little Engle freezer. I don't plan on taking our Honda 2000 any more as we can live without the water heater when anchored out in Baja. We also use a waterless composting head to eliminate the weight of the holding tank aft.
Some photos in our Sierra album.

[JamesTXSD]

[smckean (Tosca)]

Thanks JamesTXSD and Micahbigsur,

Then I have further queries (to you or anyone else). I'm not sure why we seem to be using our 20 gallons of water so much faster than you.

How do you wash dishes? Maybe that's it. So far we use fresh water for that, and even as careful as we try to be, rinsing seems to use a lot of water.

On the face of it, we should use even less water than you since we don't take showers at all, and since our boat has the marine head removed and replaced with a port-a-potti (we fill the port-a-potti tank from separate water jugs). We can't really use a sun-shower here in the NW (except mid-summer maybe). We just returned from 10 days in the San Juan and Gulf Islands and only had sun 3 days (plus lots of rain!).

I once checked into getting a watermaker to solve this "problem", but cheapest I could find was $3000 to $4000. That was a non-starter for me (tho I can see the expense if I took long cruises in locations like Baja).

[Sea Wolf]

How do you rinse your dishes, etc.?

If you use running water supplied by an electric pump, you'll use a lot more than if using a foot pump with which you can deliver as little as you can get by with.

The early CD-22 Cruisers had an electric pump hat was soon replaced by a foot pump for that very reason, water conservation.

Joe.

[thataway]

There are a number of options on water conservation--for instance the boat I grew up on only had one gallon Clorox jugs repurposed for water. Salt water to wash the dishes, and salt water to bathe in. On one of the boats I raced on, we had 50 gallons of water, 10 man crew and 15 days to reach Hawaii--still had some water left over. Salt water even to wash the teeth. Even with a water maker, on our large cruising boats we had a raw water (sea water) pressurized system, including a galley salt water tap.

You can bathe and rinse in salt water, and brush the salt off. We did this for years.

In "conservation mode" we use a minimum water when doing dishes--for example we clean the major of debris off the plates with our napkins, which are then thrown away. A small amount of hot water is put into the glass, with soap--then the handiwipe and soap washes all of the other dishes. Next, the soapy water is poured over the other dishes, and that glass well drained. The glass is filled with fresh hot water, and then slowly worked around that glass, then poured onto the next dish carefully to rinse all surfaces, including where the silverware sits. A second rinse is all that is necessary to get all free of soap. If we use a quart total, that would be a lot.

Shower--get the cloth wet, work the soap into it, and onto the body. A couple of quarts of water judiciously used will be adequate to rinse. Even with a pressure water system, we never let the water "run". If you want to "stand under the shower"--water will go very quickly.

We used less than 2 full water tanks during our last 3 weeks on the water. Probably 3 of the "drinking" water 6 gallon containers...

Drinking water--we have a "back up" supply, of 6 gallons in a blue plastic container. This is filtered thru a Brita filter, and is put into re-usable water bottles, which are kept cool in the refrigerator or freezer (the warmer section, over the compressor).

I have been amazed with our new Bosch 2.5 gallon water heater. There is only about a foot of hose between its outlet and galley faucet. If we have heated water at night, it is still warm enough in the AM for dishes--but in 15 minutes it will be hot again, if we are running the generator. I had the thermostat set too high--it was too hot to be comfortable on hands, but the idea was it would mix with cold in the "mixing valve" in the shower.