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Great American loop preparation advice
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sebastien



Joined: 07 Aug 2018
Posts: 47
City/Region: philadelphia
State or Province: PA
C-Dory Year: 2000
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Pompano
Photos: Pompano
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sobelle,

Yes if the boat had not come with a decent second anchor I would not have automatically thought to go out and get one but its there just in case.

Everything does point to adding access hatches to the V-birth, Thanks for the reasurance.

I was imagining at least having a sturdy snapped in fabric piece to separate the chain locker from the V-birth if/when I add a windlass or at least a deck pipe (and drain hole of course)

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sebastien



Joined: 07 Aug 2018
Posts: 47
City/Region: philadelphia
State or Province: PA
C-Dory Year: 2000
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Pompano
Photos: Pompano
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Micah from Sierra,

wow you’ve had some serious experience building boats and sailing them over the years and your present boat looks very well outfitted indeed.

I really want to sleep well at night and go ashore without stressing about the boat dragging so I am very seriously thinking about upgrading the main anchor to a Rocna, ditching the smaller of the two I have and keeping the bigger one as a backup.

Thank you for the advice about the Engel and solar. you notes will come in handy.

you have interesting insights about the inflatable-floor dinghies,
I see your new one is a slatted floor flat bottom model.
I’ve only used older plywood floor dinghies (usually replaced with a single sheet of marine ply) how is it standing on the slatted floor, say for loading and unloading goods and supplies?
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Micahbigsur@msn.com



Joined: 27 May 2019
Posts: 469
City/Region: Big Sur
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sierra
Photos: Sierra
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the flat floor dingy, the downside of our whole boat upgrade is weight vs. long range fuel consumption so trying to keep this light in general is important to us. So that and lifting it up onto the cabin top caused us to go for a new lighter dinghy. The floor stepping in is not bad, we carry it in the back of the truck on the way to our launch destination so it needs to be small when deflated. The Achilles inflatable floor had a large hole near the bow where you step in that was the inflatable keel access, we kept a towel stuffed into it but it was still awkward. Other brands may be better designed. I did not mention the whole debate between lightweight PVC fabric vs. Long lasting but heavier Hypalon, the Achilles are a high quality Hypalon, the Zodiac PVC, there is a significant difference in how long they last depending on Sun exposure. Since we are not full time cruisers and we paint our dingys with special paint, we think PVC will work out for us on Sierra.
Among our cruising friends in Mexico anchors are a touchy subject, a lot of strong opinions like in politics. Dana did tred into dangerous waters once after a big blow in the Isla San Francisco, Baja Sur anchorage and polled the boats on which anchors they were using. Several boats had dragged most of them were using the old CQR/delta plow types, the new style concave anchors all held. No one uses a Danforth as a primary they don't self stow and are not good at resetting in a 180 degree wind shift which can happen in the middle of the night down there.
Everyone's needs are unique so take this all with a grain of salt! Good luck

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Micah Curtis and Dana, RN
2003 C-dory 25 Sierra, 200, 9.9 and 2.5 Suzukis
2012 R25 SC Sequoia (2015-2018)
1978 Folkes 38 SV Audacious (2006-2015)
Micah, KJ6GUF, Dana, KJ6GXG
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journey on



Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 3336
City/Region: Valley Centre
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: journey on
Photos: Journey On
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I'm late to this conversation, but here's a few free thoughts.

Judy and I did a half Great Loop in 2002 in our 36' sailboat, Our Journey. Judy's documented it at Our Great Loop Trip. So based on that, here's my comments.

We loved the trip; saw much of the USA we didn't know. There was no best part, it was all good. We're West Coast brats, never lived east of Los Angeles, so the East Coast was new. If you can break up your trip into livable segments on your 22 (however long that is?) a trailerable boat is the perfect way to see everything. I will say that a 22' has a finite time one can live on it, but we saw several.

Put our boat in at Mobile and the went around to Waukegan, Il and shipped it back to the West Coast. No desire to go down the rivers back to Mobile and close the loop. Going down a damned and dredged river is really boring, especially at the speeds Our Journey travels. Though for some (which we met in Mobile) it was the trip of a lifetime.

Highlights were the Eire Canal, a good place for you to start, the Bahamas, Sarasota, Fl for the circus, all the pre-Constituiton constitutions
in the Carolina mansions and the various Harbours of Refuge along the east and west coast of Michigan.

The 22 has no separate head and the 25 does. If you decide to move up remember that a 25 really needs a 3/4 ton to tow. We have a F250 which gets 8 mpg with a 9000# trailer. To get the 15 mpg Gulfcoast John got, one needs a diesel. Given all that I think a 22 will do.

Anchors. A sore topic with me. Our Journey had a good CQR anchor which would plow in mud or sand. Journey On, our 25, has a claw which will not set in kelp or rocks. I've tried a Manson and had so-so results. I've gone back to a Danforth High Test. It seems to set in various conditions and I've not had trouble with it setting and staying set. I can handle the problem of stowing at the stem.

Boris
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Micahbigsur@msn.com



Joined: 27 May 2019
Posts: 469
City/Region: Big Sur
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sierra
Photos: Sierra
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my anchor critique above I forgot to mention the Lewmar Claw (originally the Bruce) which were first designed as giant anchors for North Sea oil rigs. I have owned a couple. I have since learned that they only start being really effective in the larger 60# and above sizes. One round the world crusing author, Beth Leonard liked their Bruce, a hundred ten pounder on their 46 footer!
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Pat Anderson



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
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City/Region: Birch Bay, WA
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Daydream
Photos: Daydream and Crabby Lou
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I would disagree with Boris and Chuck - we did not find ANY part of our Loop "boring"! The Illinios, Mississippi, Ohio, Tenn-Tom and Black Warrior were all interesting to us! It was even fun hanging with Loopers in Demopolis waiting out Hurricane Nate!

There are quite a few cool places between Chicago and Mobile, sorry this is such an epistle!

The Village of Hennepin, IL (9/6/17). Free dock, public restrooms, a Post Office, a marine supply store, a grocery store, and three taverns, what more could you want?

Peoria, IL (9/7/17). The mysterious free marina with power and water that does not officially exist, right next to the stern wheeler Spirit of Peoria dock and right below the Riverfront Festival Park with public restrooms and an ice cream shop. This was a fun place to walk around.

Alton , IL (9/11/17). There were some interesting anchorages, notable mainly for being nothing like their Active Captain entries described them, before we reached Alton! Alton is a bona fide city, with a very cool and unique restaurant/bar called Fast Eddie's Bon Air, where we had a fun night with a blog follower there. There is a Walmart in Alton, and Uber, so a good place to reprovision! Another dinner with a blog follower at Tony's. Does any of this sound "boring" or "uninteresting" so far? This is also where we left the Illinois and entered the Mississippi!

Hoppies (should be "Hoppy's" but I can't change Skipper Bob and Active Captain!), Kimswick, MO ((9/14/17). This place is legendary among Loopers, although it apparently barely exists today. It was four rusty barges with a fuel barge and the one-of-a-kind Fern Hopkins. She is probably 80, and holds forth every evening for the Loopers tied up there. We sat around with all the other Loopers while Fern sat right under the "No Smoking" sign next to gas pump lighting one cigarette after another as she gave us her nightly wisdom! Hoppies was done in by a hurricane, not an explosion! At the time, this was the last fuel on the Mississippi for 250 miles. This place, I can say for sure, is neither boring nor uninteresting!

Little River Diversion Channel. Cape Girardeaux, MO (9/15/17). All Loopers go up the Little River Diversion Channel to anchor off the Mississippi, but usually only a short distance, and none past the railroad bridge, maybe a quarter mile or so. We went up all the way to the Interstate bridge, some two or three miles! There was a gas station a short way from our anchorage on an Interstate exit. A kindly gentleman gave me a ride into Cape Girardeax to buy a 5 gallon gas container, and I trudged the short distance to the gas station three times for "insurance" fuel that it turned out we didn't need. It was still an intersting stop all the same!

Paducah Marina, Paducah, KY (9/17/17). We hoped Paducah Marina would be open, but it wasn't, it was still under the contractor's control. But the contractor was not chasing off boats that tied up there and enjoyed the (for the time being) free water and power. We had a nice time here with the other Loopers who also tied up here!

Green Turtle Bay Marina, Grand Rivers, KY (9/18/17). This is a fantastic marina on Lake Barkley with a couple of nice restaurants, and Grand Rivers is an intersting little town! We stayed three days here. Not boring or uninteresting at all! A short distance from Green Turtle Bay, we left Lake Barkley and entered Kentucky Lake through "the cut."

Land Between the Lakes is the area between Lake Barkley and Kentucky Lake, many cool anchorages, and a swim in the buff or two!

Pickwick Landing State Park, TN (9/24/17). We had a LOT of cool anchorages on Kentuky Lake after leaving Green Turtle Bay, but Pickwick Landing State Park was major cool. We connected with other Loopers here and enjoyed (suffered?) an evening of playing some mysterious board game aboard the sailing catamaran Angel Louise along with friends Bob and Gail from Bellingham on the trawler Good Times. This state park is a very interesting place with a wonderful campground that we may visit from the land side some time in the future!

Aqua Yacht Harbor, Iuka, MS (9/25/17). Another great marina, right where the route starts down the Tenn-Tom Waterway. We spent two days here, and another boater took us to a pretty good BBQ place. Does this sound like "grinding out the miles"?

Bay Springs Lake, MS (9/27/17). A wonderful lake with many anchorages right after you leave the "Divide Cut" of the Tenn-Tom. A great spot for another swim in the buff!

Wilkins Lock Boat Ramp MS (8/28/17). This boat ramp is on a little pond above the Wilkins Lock. This is a Corps of Engineers facility, and it is gorgeous. It has a big concrete parking lot, trash cans, restrooms and a nice large grassy area. We liked it a lot!

Demopolis, AL (10/2/17). There were some exciting anchorages beween Wilkins Lock and Demopolis, but you can read the blog about those! Demopolis was where we waited out Hurricane Nate for more than a week. They had a loaner car, and there are a lot of historic sites in Demopolis! Hurricane Nate passed over, and it was no big deal, but we had fine time in Demopolis!

Bobby's Fish Camp, Silas, AL (10/10/17). This is kind of like Hoppies, a "must stop" spot, it is the only fuel stop between Demopolis and Mobile! We were tied up here with our friends on the trawler Desperado and a couple of huge yachts. We had a great evening on the dock with our friends, but the best part was that this is only two days from Mobile!

And we are in Mobile! Sorry, not "boring" or "uninteresting" at all!


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DAYDREAM - CD25 Cruiser
CRABBY LOU - CD16 Angler (sold 2020)
Pat & Patty Anderson, and Baxter! C-Brat # 62!

http://daydreamsloop.blogspot.com
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sebastien



Joined: 07 Aug 2018
Posts: 47
City/Region: philadelphia
State or Province: PA
C-Dory Year: 2000
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Pompano
Photos: Pompano
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Micah from Sierra

Yes I am reconsidering going to a smaller dinghy and a smaller lighter outboard for it… forget planing, on a 22 boat that planes it does seem an extravagance maybe.

I pretty sure I’ll settle for a 20lbs Rocna vulcan or a 22lbs original.
its two sizes up but I want to sleep well at night and not worry about the boat dragging during day excursions.

thanks again for all the tips and advice.

And yes “everyones needs are unique” and If I didn't take this all with a grain of salt after all these responses to my queries I might be selling the 22, getting onto a 25 and abandoning the great loops altogether!
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sebastien



Joined: 07 Aug 2018
Posts: 47
City/Region: philadelphia
State or Province: PA
C-Dory Year: 2000
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Pompano
Photos: Pompano
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the insights Boris from Journey on,

We’re planning to go up though lake Champlain on this trip but I’ve also heard great things about the Erie canal - I could see doing “the triangle loop” I think it’s called some time in the future.

It does sound like anchors are a complicated topic.
I’m still wrapping my head around the amount of Chain and rode I want to carry for the loop - it seems a lot of conversations about this
are specific the the PNW or people who need to drop anchor in hundreds of feet of water to fish…

PS I like you instrument panel mods
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DavidM



Joined: 24 Dec 2017
Posts: 196
City/Region: Punta Gorda
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="sebastien"]
It does sound like anchors are a complicated topic.
I’m still wrapping my head around the amount of Chain and rode I want to carry for the loop - it seems a lot of conversations about this
are specific the the PNW or people who need to drop anchor in hundreds of feet of water to fish…[/quot't e]

Yes, perhaps they are. If you really want to make a deep dive into this subject, spend an hour or two searching for and reading anchor threads on trawlerforum. In fact TF would be a good resource for any potential Looper.

IMO, if you are always going to anchor in relatively shallow water- 15' or less you can get by with 25' of chain. Chain does two things: it acts as a weight near the anchor shank and holds it more parallel with the sea floor for better holding and it doesn't get cut up on the rocks.

If you are anchoring in 15' or less, just put out another 30' of scope and that will do more for holding than the chain would. Also 25' of chain is enough to deal with rocks in shallow water.

David
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sebastien



Joined: 07 Aug 2018
Posts: 47
City/Region: philadelphia
State or Province: PA
C-Dory Year: 2000
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Pompano
Photos: Pompano
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Pat from Daydream for not only your great tech insights earlier but now on your much appreciated positive spin and fabulous insights about your good times on your journey.


One person’s great adventure can certainly be another’s tedium.
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sebastien



Joined: 07 Aug 2018
Posts: 47
City/Region: philadelphia
State or Province: PA
C-Dory Year: 2000
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Pompano
Photos: Pompano
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your further insights about anchoring technique David.

The balance between anchor weight, length (& weight) of chain and scope is pretty intricate and I plan to seek further knowledge about it for sure.

Without risking another flurry of comments about anchoring etc. on the forum (which would not be completely un-welcomed) this is my plan for now:

-get a 20lbs Rocna for peace of mind. (3 sizes bigger)

-ditch the 9lbs delta that came with the boat.

-keep the 15lb delta that also came with the boat as a back up.

-get 30 feet of 1/4 G4 chain.

-get a deck pipe (off to the side for potential future windlass)

-use the 1/2in. braided 100ft of rode that came with the boat for the main anchor for now.

-keep the 1/2in. three-strand rode that came with the boat as a back up.

(the 20lbs delta has 3ft of chain is that too short even for a back up in case I loose the whole main rig?)

Eventually you have to make a decision and live with it!
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DavidM



Joined: 24 Dec 2017
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City/Region: Punta Gorda
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C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like a good plan.

David
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Pat Anderson



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 8184
City/Region: Birch Bay, WA
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C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Daydream
Photos: Daydream and Crabby Lou
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sebastien wrote:

Eventually you have to make a decision and live with it!


You don't have to live with your initial decisions all the way around! Even if you make the wrong decision when you start, you can fix it just about anywhere on the Loop.
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alainP



Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Posts: 87
City/Region: Tucson
State or Province: AZ
C-Dory Year: 2011
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: deja la
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Vulcan made by Rocna is a very good fit on our bow and sets quickly. No hoop, something to consider.
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alainP



Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Posts: 87
City/Region: Tucson
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C-Dory Year: 2011
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: deja la
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, just read your previous post: You ARE considering the Vulcan! Good choice.
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