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lloyds



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually a pretty remarkable presentation. If you watch the first minute you will likely watch it all.
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thataway



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that the presentation linked to by Missynme is excellent.

One graph which really got my attention is the number of the Southern Pod from 1960 to now:


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ssobol



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems to me that the issue is not the number of Orcas, but their condition. When I lived there about 20 years ago, the number of Orcas in the Southern population was almost exactly the same as now. However, they appeared to be healthier (as exhibited by a better body shape).
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thataway



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ssobol wrote:
It seems to me that the issue is not the number of Orcas, but their condition. When I lived there about 20 years ago, the number of Orcas in the Southern population was almost exactly the same as now. However, they appeared to be healthier (as exhibited by a better body shape).


Health, most likely related to available food, and toxins, certainly is a factor. This also may contribute the the low birth rate. I suppose one could use the same argument for psychological stress...
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localboy



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thataway wrote:
I agree that the presentation linked to by Missynme is excellent.

One graph which really got my attention is the number of the Southern Pod from 1960 to now:



I have discussed this before. Numbers seem pretty consistent. But that does not play into the “endangered” narrative...

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thataway



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:02 pm    Post subject: ORCA Reply with quote

[quote]I have discussed this before. Numbers seem pretty consistent. But that does not play into the “endangered” narrative...
Quote:


Agree, but those who want it to--manipulation of statistics--say it does (which it does not) because of the down slope of the last few years. Same thing with "Global Warming"- er.. "Climate Change"--sure the climate is changing, part of earth is warming, part is cooling. We have increasing CO2, and USA going to expensive "green" (which is not really environmental sound) is not going to make a blip in the CO2 issue.

People seem to want to have a 'Cause" "religion, is dead, so Orca, or Climate change becomes their religion....

Take care my friend.
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JamesTXSD



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The other thing to consider that was not mentioned in that video that does not bode well for the SRKW: the number of adults of breeding age. Just like humans, these animals have a sexual maturity age and menopause age. When comparing the number of animals with any previous time, you also need to take into consideration the health and age to make even a loose guess at potential for pregnancy and birth. They have a gestation period of 15 to 18 months. Males reach sexual maturity around 13 years of age, females at 6 to 10 years.

The last time the SRKW population was this number, there were more whales (male and female) of a potential breeding age than currently.

In that video, there seemed to be a concern about "urgency and self-appointed experts (that may have no basis for that status)" - I think that is a part of what is fueling this current push to keep boats away: people looking for an "obvious bad guy." Even though boats and whales have coexisted for decades. The things that have changed: dwindling food source and increased toxins in the water.
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dotnmarty



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dotty and I go whale watching on a commercial vessel every year. Never had a bad experience and they always followed the rules. We've gone out of Seattle, Anacortes, Everett and LaConnor and this coming Monday going from Edmonds
A wonderful PNW experience, And, if you happen to be on the East Coast take one of those trips out of Provincetown to see some 50 foot long humpback whales.

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localboy



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The things that have changed: dwindling food source and increased toxins in the water.


Bingo. I could point to studies re: the level of narcotics/illicit drugs in The Sound. And anyone who has been to Seattle knows it's the narco capital of WA. It's a pandemic of doper zombies.

I don't need studies to know there are way too many pinnipeds, due to decades of Federal protection. And what do pinnipeds eat? Fish...specifically, salmon.

But, yeah. It's me and my boat that are the issue.
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localboy



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://mynorthwest.com/1518224/feds-propose-major-habitat-protections-for-killer-whales/
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starcrafttom



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two things that are not being looked at or are not being reported. 1) all other pods of Orcas in the pacific, both transient and resident ( northern pods) are increasing in numbers. This is happening pacific wide but more so in the eastern pacific. But this one local pod is in trouble, even thu the population is just over the average since we have been keeping track. 2) to Jims point , since riffles died and a new male took over as the main breeder, cant remember his ID, the pod has been having trouble with calfs servicing. This very maybe a genetic problem. Just two thoughts.

As far as salmon numbers. 1) fund the hatcheries and hatchery REFORM. breed wild fish , if there is such a thing really, and not just hatchery returns. 2) shoot half the harbor seals in the sound and all the sea lions that are in rivers. Hatchery numbers of smolts do not mean shit if the smolts are eaten on the out migration. Its not the adult salmon that suffer from the seal number the most. WDFW put the carrying capacity of the sound for seals at 40k , its currently 160k. This is also the main reason for the decline and non recovery of rock fish. Seal lions are stopping the recovery of herring. WDFW had a bounty on seals until 1980? So this is not a new idea. 3) Stop the practice of netting in river. Just fing stop. A balance of hatchery, terminal stocks and habitat recover is needed.

The late 70s was the best fishing in the sound and what was going on. Lots of hatcheries, bounty on seal and no one no matter their color was allowed to net the river. And all this when commercial fisherman used to shoot at the ocras because there was so many. The bolt decision changed all that and its been down hill every since. Thank you for reading and I am not interested in other opinions any longer. The government is going to go on arguing about dams, boat traffic, habitat that no longer exist ,water conditions and other pet peezes and pet projects of morons until there are no salmon left ( 15 years or so) and then stand around pointing at each other as who is to blame.

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RobLL



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A question, and it is controversial, and I don't have a view on it. Discussion requested.

Waiting to greatly increase Chinook salmon likely means the Southern Pod will die. Has their been any exploration into feeding the Orcas with some sort of formulated food? Likely it needs to be high fat, high protein, and with a suitable fat profile, and other nutrients.

I am persuaded that we no longer live in a pre-human natural environment. Even Cascadia before European discovery was not 'natural'. If Orcas, Grizzlies, Sea Otters, wolves, fishers, Olympic oysters require more human intervention I would say it needs to be done. And more likely than restoring some sort of nature before humans which cannot be done.
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localboy



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RobLL wrote:
Has their been any exploration into feeding the Orcas with some sort of formulated food?


Not formulated. Live KING salmon. I don’t imagine they will eat anything else. From what I’ve read it’s Kings and Kings only. VERY PARTICULAR EATERS. if they would only acquire a taste for pinnipeds, like their cousins, it would be a “win-win”.

https://q13fox.com/2019/05/21/lummi-nation-wants-to-feed-endangered-southern-resident-orcas/

https://bitterrootmag.com/2019/07/12/the-lummi-nation-has-a-simple-idea-to-save-orcas-get-more-chinook-in-the-water/

They tried quite a few times last year. It never worked.
https://q13fox.com/2018/08/10/teams-pack-boats-with-fish-to-prepare-to-feed-ailing-orca/
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