View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
localboy
Joined: 30 Sep 2006 Posts: 4656 City/Region: Lake Stevens via Honolulu
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: 'Au Kai (Ocean Traveler)
Photos: 'AU KAI
|
Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 12:37 pm Post subject: New NEC/ABYC shorepower standard... |
|
|
...and it's possible complication.
We just spent a couple of nights at Friday Harbor. They have done some upgrades to H dock (and others) including new 30 amp shore power pedestals. We tried to hook 'Au Kai up, but the breaker would instantly trip at the pedestal. I tried a neighboring pedestal. Same thing. I called up to the Harbormaster office and a maintenance worker came down. We went thru my steps on how I connect it. Correct. (We have a dedicated 30 amp at home and the boat was hooked up all winter, so this confused me) That's when he told me the "issue" lay with how the boat is wired. The new pedestals now have GFCI breakers installed. He said the marina was mandated by up-dated code to install them. Since then, they are seeing quite a few boats with the same type of issues. Since the season and pedestals are all brand new...the issue has suddenly arisen. I'm sure I'm not alone.
So I did some research. There is a new NEC code standard (Article 555.3 issued in 2011) that came into effect in in 2014 that requires the use of GFCI breakers at all marinas. Basically, the electricity is disconnected with 30 milliamps of ground fault leakage. This is the new standard. If a marina updated or rebuilt for whatever reason, they are now mandated to comply.
This article explains it in detail: https://www.powerandmotoryacht.com/maintenance/why-some-boaters-suddenly-cant-connect-to-shore-power
Our boat's issue lies with the transfer switch (the main breaker) because the symptom is this: Quote: | First, turn off the primary breaker in the shore power connection. Then, turn off all branch circuit breakers within the boat. Once the shore power cord is connected and locked into place, turn on the shore power connection at the dock pedestal, with the boat’s main AC breaker still off. ...turn on the boat’s main AC breaker with all of the branch circuits still off. If the shore power pedestal breaker trips, the problem is likely an improperly wired transfer switch or inverter. | Exactly our experience.
So I may need an AYBC certified electrician to diagnose and solve this. Or maybe I need one of these installed: https://www.boatus.com/seaworthy/magazine/2015/july/isolation-transformers.asp The article noted that this may solve the issue and provide other benefits. Since I'm dealing with electricity on a boat, I may just hire a professional and have him solve it the correct way. _________________ "We can go over there...behind the 'little one'....."
Wife to her husband pointing @ us...from the bow of their 50-footer; Prideaux Haven 2013 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
TyBoo
Joined: 23 Oct 2003 Posts: 5314 City/Region: Warrenton
State or Province: OR
C-Dory Year: 1996
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruise Ship
Vessel Name: TyBoo
Photos: TyBoo
|
Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 1:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
No way am I an electrician and no way am I making recommendations, but here is my similar experience.
When plugging my shore power in at home I found it would consistently trip a newer GFCI. It worked fine for years but would not work with a new outlet I had installed in the garage.
What I found was the onboard breaker panel had the ground bus and the neutral bus connected. Separating them solved the problem.
Before hiring a marine electrician you may want to make the simple check yourself. The ground and neutral should be isolated even though they originate from the same spot somewhere way upstream in the circuit.
I am out on the river fishing and doing this from the phone so I didn’t follow your links. If this is discussed there and I am just rambling, I apologize. _________________ TyBoo Mike
Sold: 1996 25' Cruise Ship
Sold: 1987 22' Cruiser |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ssobol
Joined: 27 Oct 2012 Posts: 3382 City/Region: SW Michigan
State or Province: MI
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: SoBELLE
Photos: SoBelle
|
Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 2:18 pm Post subject: Re: New NEC/ABYC shorepower standard... |
|
|
As mentioned in the article, can you tolerate another 60-70 lbs. on your boat. Also, any transformer that weighs 60-70# is not going to be that small even though transformers are high density objects. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
TyBoo
Joined: 23 Oct 2003 Posts: 5314 City/Region: Warrenton
State or Province: OR
C-Dory Year: 1996
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruise Ship
Vessel Name: TyBoo
Photos: TyBoo
|
Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 2:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Ok - we’re not exactly busy catching fish so I took the time to read the articles. You probably already considered the only thing I can offer so I’ll just take a little nap and let Lois watch the poles. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
jennykatz
Joined: 15 Dec 2003 Posts: 1678 City/Region: naples
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: Little Treasurer
Photos: Jennykatz
|
Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:40 am Post subject: electric |
|
|
I think they might be tying the neutral and ground together because sometimes the small gen -sets(Honda) won't work unless they are tied together The small gensets have a floating ground . _________________ retired 8/08 from UAL, still working pt tm
Duck c-22 cruiser sold 6/23/08
06 Venture Cruiser with merc115CT
00 cd16 cruiser honda 40 sold 3/12 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
localboy
Joined: 30 Sep 2006 Posts: 4656 City/Region: Lake Stevens via Honolulu
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: 'Au Kai (Ocean Traveler)
Photos: 'AU KAI
|
Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 5:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
TyBoo wrote: | Ok - we’re not exactly busy catching fish so I took the time to read the articles. |
A bad day fishing is still a good day boating... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
localboy
Joined: 30 Sep 2006 Posts: 4656 City/Region: Lake Stevens via Honolulu
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: 'Au Kai (Ocean Traveler)
Photos: 'AU KAI
|
Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 5:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I'm going to do some more research. I have not even looked at anything. We got back, cleaned up, processed the shrimp...completed some house chores etc. I'll look at it when I have time. Thanks for the suggestions... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
localboy
Joined: 30 Sep 2006 Posts: 4656 City/Region: Lake Stevens via Honolulu
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: 'Au Kai (Ocean Traveler)
Photos: 'AU KAI
|
Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:37 pm Post subject: Re: New NEC/ABYC shorepower standard... |
|
|
ssobol wrote: | As mentioned in the article, can you tolerate another 60-70 lbs. on your boat. Also, any transformer that weighs 60-70# is not going to be that small even though transformers are high density objects. |
My posting that was facetious; tongue in cheek. I'm sure there is an easier, less expensive and lighter solution. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Salmon Fisher
Joined: 07 Aug 2009 Posts: 810 City/Region: Arlington
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Kim Christine
Photos: Kim Christine
|
Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
FWIW
We attended the FHCBGT and didn't have any trouble with the breaker tripping.
Here is our shore power procedure:
1) Turn OFF all breakers in the boat.
2) Turn OFF breaker at power post at dock.
3) Plug in shore power at the boat.
4) Plug in shore power plug at power post at dock.
5) Turn ON breaker at power post at dock.
6) Turn ON boat main breaker and then other breakers for needed supply.
Our boat is a 2006 25 Cruiser with a galvanic isolator. Maybe that plays a part in our success.
There were other boaters that were having problems with their power post breakers tripping while we were there. _________________ Patrick and Kim Walker
2004 25 Cruiser-Present
2000 22 Cruiser 2009-2014 (Sold)
2006 25 Cruiser 2014-2019 (Sold)
1985 22 Classic -2019 (Sold)
1991 19 Arima Sea Ranger-2019-2021 (Sold)
2015 27 Ranger Tug-2019-2023 (Sold)
1987 22 Cruiser -2021-2023 (Sold)
Honey, this REALLY will be my last boat, honest! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
smittypaddler
Joined: 30 Jun 2004 Posts: 337 City/Region: Neenah, Wisconsin
State or Province: WI
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Na Waqa
|
Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:10 pm Post subject: No certified electricians within 100 miles of Appleton, Wis |
|
|
I've never succeeded connecting to a 30-amp gfci plug, and I've tried every sequence of switches on my 22 C-Dory I could think of. I'm not a competent electrician, so I'm not about to try to solve this, but when I went to the ABYC directory online and asked for a certified electrician within 100 miles of Appleton, Wisconsin, I got zero hits. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
localboy
Joined: 30 Sep 2006 Posts: 4656 City/Region: Lake Stevens via Honolulu
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: 'Au Kai (Ocean Traveler)
Photos: 'AU KAI
|
Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Quote: | Here is our shore power procedure:
1) Turn OFF all breakers in the boat.
2) Turn OFF breaker at power post at dock.
3) Plug in shore power at the boat.
4) Plug in shore power plug at power post at dock.
5) Turn ON breaker at power post at dock.
6) Turn ON boat main breaker and then other breakers for needed supply.
Our boat is a 2006 25 Cruiser with a galvanic isolator. Maybe that plays a part in our success. |
Patrick, I follow the exact same procedure. It would trip...instantly. And yet your boat is one year older than ours. We also have a galvanic isolator. Hmmmm....I am confused. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 20829 City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
|
Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
One test to do to start the diagnostic chain--is to see if the ground and neutral are wired to a common point. Check for continuity across the green and white wires, with the boat unplugged from the shore power. With the power off, unplugged this is a safe test to perform.
There are a number of other tests, but know exactly what you are doing, and be very careful doing any measurements with the power plugged in and turned on.
Having all circuits and the breaker on the power pillar turned off is always a good idea in both boats and RV's. _________________ Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|