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hardee



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 12632
City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ssobol wrote:
thataway wrote:
... Once you have witnessed a propane explosion on a boat, it will leave a lasting impression! ...


I would say that probably applies to any explosion on a boat, not just propane.


I agree, but, (and I am guessing here) that propane is the most frequent cause for on board vessel explosions. I have only seen one, but it took a 34-36 foot pilot house sail boat and turned it into mach sticks down to the water line and spread pars over a football size area in our marina. One fatality, one serious injury, and 2 other folk injured, on of them blown into the water. There were about 6 other boats with major damage.

All from a simple propane tank change, not done quite right.

Harvey
SleepyC Moon


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pcg



Joined: 31 Aug 2018
Posts: 405
City/Region: Sherwood
State or Province: OR
C-Dory Year: 1999
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Quest
Photos: pcg
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, most boat explosions are caused by gasoline…
https://www.boatus.com/seaworthy/magazine/2016/april/preventing-explosions-aboard.asp

As the original poster for this thread I was careful not to mention propane, as the merits of propane vs. diesel was not my question, and I knew the p word wold derail the post. So my bad for responding to someone’s question re. what kind of furnace I was considering, and thus allowing this to happen. In retrospect that’s not so bad, as I think it’s good that any thread that discusses the use of propane also discusses how to use it safely.

There are protocols for using all of these energy sources safely and, if you don’t follow them, you are setting yourself up for a heap of trouble. Carelessness causes accidents, not gasoline or propane or electricity, all of which can be deadly. Personally I am satisfied that I can safely use propane aboard my boat, as I have safely used it on my RV for decades. I believe I understand what is required to do so and am capable of implementing a safe propane installation.

If anyone else comes upon this thread and wants to learn more about how to use it safely here's some information to get you started. The first is an intro, the second two go into more detail, and the fourth is a copy of the ABYC requirements:
https://www.westmarine.com/WestAdvisor/Safe-Propane-Installations
https://www.passagemaker.com/lifestyle/lp-gas-systems-part-1-installation-and-safety
https://www.passagemaker.com/lifestyle/lp-gas-systems
https://archive.org/stream/gov.law.abyc.A-01.1993/abyc.A-01.1993_djvu.txt

Everyone I personally know who owns a cruising boat (only two as I’m new to this so I don’t have many boat friends yet) uses propane on their boats. One is a Grand Banks and the other is a Tollycraft. I believe propane came standard with these boats, as it does on Ranger Tugs, which many are familiar with. I’m guessing there are millions of RVs on the road in this country that use propane.

There is no question that propane is a dangerous substance, as are gasoline, natural gas, and electricity. Propane is more dangerous than gasoline because propane is heavier than air, and will sink to the bottom of a bilge, cabinet, etc. whereas gasoline fumes will rise and are much more likely to dissipate if conditions are right. Diesel is inherently much safer than either because it is not explosive at room temperatures.

The bottom line in is that there are lots of careless people out there. Every time I go to the Garibaldi marina, I shudder to walk by the commercial fishing vessels and look inside the cabin windows. Besides crap piled everywhere there is often a propane bottle, not in a locker, attached to a catalytic heater and a stove. These are the situations that make the news and give propane a bad name.

Most of us are comfortable being around gasoline, natural gas, diesel, and electricity because we use one or more of these daily and society in general is comfortable with them, despite spectacular failures. Unfortunately, I witnessed a car fire and explosion two days ago, yet I am not afraid to drive my car today. In part because I believe I will not make the mistake that caused that event, but also in part because I’ve become comfortable driving around with 20 gallons of gasoline under me.

Unless you live in a rural area like me, where most people heat and cook with propane, your only exposure to propane is likely the evening news. If you aren’t comfortable with propane, or don’t feel you can use it safely, then DON’T USE IT. It is not to be trifled with!

Thanks again for the suggestions in response to my original post. And thank you to those who took the opportunity to ensure that readers of this post are aware of the requirements for using propane safely.

_________________
Paul


Last edited by pcg on Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:35 pm; edited 4 times in total
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pcg



Joined: 31 Aug 2018
Posts: 405
City/Region: Sherwood
State or Province: OR
C-Dory Year: 1999
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Quest
Photos: pcg
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And, if you're wondering why I would go to all the trouble required for a proper propane installation, it was initially because my wife and I like to cook with propane. Then when I started researching diesel heaters I learned about the disadvantages of diesel vs. propane for heating. Specifically:

1) All diesel heaters except the Wallace are relatively much noisier than a propane furnace. I like quiet, both at marinas and at remote anchorages.

2) Diesel heaters use more electricity, primarily because furnaces cycle on and off, and when a diesel heater restarts it draws a lot of current for several minutes.

3) Diesel heaters require periodic (every year?) maintenance. The propane furnace in my camper has been running for just over 20 years with absolutely no maintenance during that time.
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hardee



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 12632
City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul, Nice write up and good links. Thanks for that and for me to learn some new stuff today. It sounds like you know what you are doing with the propane. I have had a motor home and a trailer, both with Propane fuel devices, (fridge and furnace and water heaters). The difference with abouve ground vehicles and boats is that RV's and trailers are not sealed as tight as boats, and that if propane does leak on board those, it has a place, or can "drain" out to outside air and dissipate. In a boat, it will only collect in the lowest areas and there is where the hazard exists.

My Wallas is going on 14 years and has worked perfectly in all that time. My RV's, went in for an annual check of the propane systems to be sure they were working as designed, no leaks and valves opened and closed. When I used to cook, I liked the gas way better than electric. Still do, but have huge respect for that. I lost a whole family of relatives due to a gas leak years ago. Didn't really endear me to the gas heating and cooking then, but I'm sure it is safer now.

As to propane on a C-Dory, there are a few systems that have been installed on our boats, so you should be able to find threads and pix of those with the "search" box.

Best in your progress, stay safe.

Harvey
SleepyC Moon

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pcg



Joined: 31 Aug 2018
Posts: 405
City/Region: Sherwood
State or Province: OR
C-Dory Year: 1999
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Quest
Photos: pcg
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Harvey! You and others are making my boat restoration possible. The C-Brats forum is a treasure trove of valuable information and wonderful people!

hardee wrote:
The difference with above ground vehicles and boats is that RV's and trailers are not sealed as tight as boats, and that if propane does leak on board those, it has a place, or can "drain" out to outside air and dissipate. In a boat, it will only collect in the lowest areas and there is where the hazard exists.
Very good point.
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