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Stalling when throttling up too fast
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BuildItOnce



Joined: 07 Aug 2018
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City/Region: Poulsbo
State or Province: WA
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C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Puzzle Piece
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:02 am    Post subject: Stalling when throttling up too fast Reply with quote

My wife and I took out our boat yesterday for its maiden voyage (and to do a little fishing). After we got out of the marina I started to throttle up the twin honda 50s to head out toward the fishing grounds. At around 2k RPM on the starboard engine it started to stall and then died. Starts right back up just fine. I kept trying to throttle up and got the same results, so I asked my wife to head back and pump the fuel priming bulb. That seemed to have fixed it and I was able to throttle up to full throttle without stalling.

And then it started its stalling business again. I figured out that if I throttle up to 2k RPM and hover there for 3-4 seconds it seems to catch its breath and will then let me throttle up higher to max RPMs without stalling. Anytime I try throttling up from idle to full throttle quickly (and by quickly, I don't mean slam down to full throttle) the starboard engine will stall. If I bring the RPMs back down when I notice it stalling it'll catch itself and not die. Otherwise I have to restart it again. The stalling problem continued through the 4 or so hours we were out on the water yesterday. I did notice that one time when I was up in the 4k RPMs the tach bounced around a little like it was having trouble maintaining it (not so on the port engine) and at 5k+ it was holding steady. It wasn't bouncing around wildly or anything, but might hold steady for a few seconds or more and then bounce a bit... repeat.

There's never a problem at 2k RPM or below.

I guess I should have had my wife do a little more testing back there with pumping the fuel priming bulb to see if that indeed made the problem go away entirely. It seemed to when I had her pump the bulb the first time.

When we took the boat out for a test drive 3 weeks ago no such problem occurred. Everything was running great and I was able to throttle up and down at any rate without issues.

The port side engine has no issues. Never stalled and behaves normally.

On the bright side we pulled in 2 silvers near Shilshole last night... 4lbs and 10lbs!

Any ideas? Do I have a fuel feed problem? Or do I have a gummed up carb problem? The fuel in the tanks is NOT ethanol free. The previous owner would dump a can of sea foam into each tank every other fill up to keep things going smoothly.
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ssobol



Joined: 27 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the engines are carbed, then you might have a problem with the acceleration pump.
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BuildItOnce



Joined: 07 Aug 2018
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City/Region: Poulsbo
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Vessel Name: Puzzle Piece
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A little more information about the motors - Twin Honda BF50A's with about 230 hours on each motor.
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Pedromo



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Start at the engine fuel filter and and clean all lines and filters back to the filter. Drain the carburetors. Give them a good dose of Sea Foam. Add a double dose conditioner to the gas.
Good luck
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BrentB



Joined: 15 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What year are the motors? carbs or FI?


Several items to check
Check prime rbulb is vertical (up) and connections are tight. Better ones have 2 check valves, Easy to replace with a better one

Check all fuel hose bends. Inner hose can separated esp at sharp bends yet the outer side looks looks great. Usually there is a sharp bend inside the rigging tube going inside the motor and the under cowling fuel filter which is another item to inspect and check for water and debris. Easy to replace, too

replace and inspect filters and look for debris and water

I have an external Racor fuel and water filter with a clear inspection bowl on the filter bottom. Easy to check for water and debris

Check fuel tank vent on hull is clear.

Maybe tank needs cleaning and fuel pickup tube replaced

Fuel pressure on injector rail and can be checked easily with fuel pressure tester and will tell you the pressure going to injectors and how well the high pressure fuel pump is working

I highly recommend buying the factory shop manual.


or locate a good shop to look at it..If carbs, I agree with the other replies. ethanol gas isnt that awful just to burn it quickly and keep it fresh. Yamaha has Ring Free gas additive maybe Honda the same

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PaulNBriannaLynn



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like a gummed up high speed jet in the carburetor to me. At least worth a shot to look at. We had the BF40s on our first c-dory with the same symptoms on the port side motor. Carl at EQ marine showed us how to get it clear with sea foam.
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BuildItOnce



Joined: 07 Aug 2018
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City/Region: Poulsbo
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C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Puzzle Piece
Photos: Puzzle Piece
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PaulNBriannaLynn wrote:
Sounds like a gummed up high speed jet in the carburetor to me. At least worth a shot to look at. We had the BF40s on our first c-dory with the same symptoms on the port side motor. Carl at EQ marine showed us how to get it clear with sea foam.


What was the procedure with sea foam? I tried a sea foaming on Friday and it seemed to work. When I initially started it and let it warm up for a few minutes and tried throttling up it was doing the same thing.. stalling at just above 2k RPM if I didn't stop at 2k and let it "catch its breath". So I was at least able to verify the problem was still there, even with the boat on the trailer without pushing a load.

I mixed about 2/3 a gallon of ETHANOL FREE fuel with 2 cans of sea foam and ran that through the motor using a separate primer bulb, fuel line, and fuel tank. I'd say 15 minutes or so of doing this and eventually I was able to throttle up and down at any rate and it wouldn't stall at all. Aha! I thought I had fixed the problem.

I took the boat out into the water the next day... ugh... problem is back. FYI, I siphoned out all of the ethanol laced gas from the tanks and replaced it with ethanol free, along with a can of sea foam in each tank... so it was running new ethanol free + sea foam blend.

The only difference I can think of is the small amount of ethanol fuel in the fuel line + fuel/water separator, along with the primer bulb + fuel line itself... so I am thinking maybe it's the fuel line and primer bulb that's giving me a problem? Or maybe I need to run a high concentration of sea foam through the motor for a longer period? I probably only ran it 15 mins or so... or maybe Carl has a better procedure?
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Almas Only



Joined: 09 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You never replied to the question of whether the motors are injected or carb?
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BuildItOnce



Joined: 07 Aug 2018
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Almas Only wrote:
You never replied to the question of whether the motors are injected or carb?


My apologies! They are triple carbed.
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busski



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah the dreaded fuel delivery problem on carb’d Hondas. , I believe your fuel pumps need replacing.

Best way to test it: If a partner pumps the bulb does the engine start running like a champ? Above a certain RPM does the engine keep in chuff? Is it primarily when accelerating from 2k RPM to 4K RPM that the engine chokes and dies?

I had this problem for about six months and tried all kinds of gypsy magic to fix the problem. Seafoam. New gas. Incantations. Carb adjustment.

It turns out the diaphragms on the Honda fuel pumps afe very fragile, and go to pot under the right conditions.

Thankfully this is about the easiest repair you can ask for. 1 hour tops to replace them. Easily accessible. And the parts themselves are inexpensive. $80-100 a piece.

For more details:

https://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-forum/846293-honda-bf90a-fuel-pump.html
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Almas Only



Joined: 09 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BuildItOnce:

If you send me a PM with your phone and email, we can discuss the problem in more detail, and share anything we learn with the others.

Almas Only
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PaulNBriannaLynn



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The way I do it is similar to you, a heavy concentration into the tank. To clear up an injector problem with the current EFI 90 Honda when we bought the boat, I added a half gallon of seafoam (I buy it in the gallon tin, its cheaper) to one of the tanks, so 20 gallons or so of fuel. After running on that tank for a day the problem was clear.

With the twin 40 Hondass, he straight up poured seafoam down the fuel line, so what went into the carb was basically pure seafoam. It cleared out those jets. Honestly, I never had to do it after that because I religiously used non-ethanol fuel, and always unplugged the fuel lines while idling to burn up the remaining fuel in the carbs, plus draining the float bowls on the carbs if it was gonna sit for more than a day. It became my routine and may seem extreme but for years never had another problem with the twins.
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BrentB



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with diaphragms. Good tip. Thamks!
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starcrafttom



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Getting in here late but let me talk about what I hear. You are stalling when you throttle up. You replaced the fuel line so you could run fresh fuel and the problem went away. you switched back and the problem came back, right? If that is wrong tell me. You still think you have a fuel problem, you dont, you have a fuel delivery problem. You have a old fuel line or bulb that is allowing air in when you throttle up and increase the suction. try replacing all the fuel line and bulbs first. that is my take. You are chasing the ethanol delusion that is just not as bad as people think it is. After the fuel line i would take the advice above and check the fuel pump..
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starcrafttom



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh and if you are running carbs please do what we have always done with carb motors both 2 and 4 stroke. If you are not going to run the boat with in a week disconnect the fuel line and let the motor run out of fuel when you flush the motor or if in fresh water at the dock. you will have to restart a few times to get it all. if you are not going to run for a few month also drain the fuel bowl. If you do this then ethanol can not harm your motor because their is not ethanol in the motor. I was taught to do this with small out boards when I was young. old fuel is only problem if its in the motor. So use your fuel and then then drain the rest and it can not harm or gum up your motor.
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