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Saxe Point
Joined: 24 Jan 2012
Posts: 77
City/Region: Sooke
State or Province: BC
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 Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Pat Anderson wrote: | Carry paper charts if you want to, but the CHS officials at the SBS did not know whereof they spoke, at least entirely. This has been covered earlier in this thread. Here is the link to the entire actual regulation, and here is the applicable part. Seems we MIGHT need to carry a printout on board to show to any overzealous RCMP or Canadian CG official. This really is not subject to "interpretation." Here is the pertinent part that creates the exception for vessels under 100 tons - this is an exception for "small boats," CE or almost any iPad app will give the skipper the knowledge required to trigger the exception:
Carriage of Charts, Documents and Publications
4 (1) Subject to subsection (2), the master and owner of every ship shall have on board, in respect of each area in which the ship is to be navigated, the most recent editions of the charts, documents and publications that are required to be used under sections 5 and 6.
(2) The master and owner of a ship of less than 100 tons are not required to have on board the charts, documents and publications referred to in subsection (1) if the person in charge of navigation has sufficient knowledge of the following information, such that safe and efficient navigation in the area where the ship is to be navigated is not compromised:
(a) the location and character of charted
(i) shipping routes,
(ii) lights, buoys and marks, and
(iii) navigational hazards; and
(b) the prevailing navigational conditions, taking into account such factors as tides, currents, ice and weather patterns.
| Larry H wrote: | Re: Canadian electronic charts. I asked the CHS officials at the Seattle Boat Show about using Coastal Explorer to meet the requirement, and I was told that CE charts do NOT meet the requirement. The only electronic charts that meet the requirement are the official (very, very expensive) CHS charts that they issue on CD's. CE running on a PC is NOT an ECDIS.
They said that the only way a small boat in Canada can comply is to carry UP TO DATE PAPER CHARTS that they issue. For the trip from Seattle to SE Alaska that stack of paper is about 4 inches thick and weighs 30 to 40 pounds. And it has to be up to date!
I told them that that is a large burden to place on small boats, and that most if not all small boats are using chart plotters or computers. You also have to carry the OFFICIAL Tide and Current books issued by CHS. Ports and Passes or tide info on a plotter does not comply with the rules. So said the CHS folks at the boat show. |
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My fairly low end Garmin chart plotter with BlueChart charts easily meets the requirements set out so that I need not carry paper charts. I expect other chart plotters would offer the same level of cartography. |
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bridma
Joined: 13 Sep 2011
Posts: 1155
City/Region: Comox
State or Province: BC
C-Dory Year: 2009
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Nomad
Photos: Nomad
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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Like a lot of boaters, I carry paper charts because I already have them. They live in my chart drawer, never see the light of day as I use my electronic chart plotter. Reassuring to still have them in case of electronics failure.
Martin.
2011 to 2017 22' C-Dory
2017 to present Camano Troll
"Once a Brat, always a Brat" |
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Saxe Point
Joined: 24 Jan 2012
Posts: 77
City/Region: Sooke
State or Province: BC
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| bridma wrote: | Like a lot of boaters, I carry paper charts because I already have them. They live in my chart drawer, never see the light of day as I use my electronic chart plotter. Reassuring to still have them in case of electronics failure.
Martin.
2011 to 2017 22' C-Dory
2017 to present Camano Troll
"Once a Brat, always a Brat" |
I should add that I do have some charts that I carry and, like you, never use.
I am less concerned about an electronics failure because I carry a handheld [battery powered] GPS device that takes the blue chart microSD card. That way, even if I have complete electrical boat failure, I’ll at least have the ability to know exactly where I am and navigate, assuming that my motors still work. |
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Larry H
Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 2041
City/Region: Tulalip,
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1991
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: Nancy H
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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Pat Anderson posted
| Quote: | Carriage of Charts, Documents and Publications
4 (1) Subject to subsection (2), the master and owner of every ship shall have on board, in respect of each area in which the ship is to be navigated, the most recent editions of the charts, documents and publications that are required to be used under sections 5 and 6.
(2) The master and owner of a ship of less than 100 tons are not required to have on board the charts, documents and publications referred to in subsection (1) if the person in charge of navigation has sufficient knowledge of the following information, such that safe and efficient navigation in the area where the ship is to be navigated is not compromised:
(a) the location and character of charted
(i) shipping routes,
(ii) lights, buoys and marks, and
(iii) navigational hazards; and
(b) the prevailing navigational conditions, taking into account such factors as tides, currents, ice and weather patterns. |
Pat says that this is the section that allows small craft to not carry paper charts.
Does having the "knowledge" mean that we can (legally) refer to our chart plotter or CE on the computer to "know" the items in '(a)' and '(b)'. And will the authorities, (RCMP) let us 'look it up' if they test us on our "knowledge"? Like an 'open book' test in school?
_________________
Larry H
A C-Brat since Nov 1, 2003
Ranger Tug 27 ex 'Jacari Maru' 2017 - 2022
Puget Trawler 37 ex 'Jacari Maru' 2006-2017
1991 22' Cruiser, 'Nancy H'--1991-2006 |
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Lollygaggin
Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 60
City/Region: Kelowna
State or Province: BC
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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[quote
Does having the "knowledge" mean that we can (legally) refer to our chart plotter or CE on the computer to "know" the items in '(a)' and '(b)'. And will the authorities, (RCMP) let us 'look it up' if they test us on our "knowledge"? Like an 'open book' test in school?[/quote]
When we were queried by the RCMP I wasn't allowed to look up anything. The first few questions I answered correctly but I wasn't able to answer their question regarding shoal waters near a local point. On past occasions I navigated past that point in the middle of the lake in order to avoid the shallows but, I was unable to say how far off shore the shoal waters extended. They weren't being nasty about it and they did only give us a warning but, we were told that paper charts in the largest scale available were mandatory if the operator was unable to satisfy the familiarity issue.
Personally I would rather just carry the charts than get into an interpretation discussion every time I get pulled over. Lately they seem to be pulling all boats over for spot checks more frequently than ever before. This may just be on this particular lake too. I rarely hear of any of our friends having spot check occurrences in coastal waters unless there has been an accident.
Probably the best way to completely cover our butts is to actually call the nearest CCG office to the area in which we intend to navigate and ask for their interpretation of the rules. I'd be inclined to get a name and badge number too. |
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AstoriaDave
Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 994
City/Region: Astoria
State or Province: OR
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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I have scooted past marked points in the San Juans which had a shallow shelf extending a hundred feet or more out into otherwise navigable waters. Once or twice, I avoided running afoul of these hazards only by "reading" the surface of the water over the shelf. My bad. If I were a more aware mariner, I would have noted those areas ahead of time, whether via paper chart, or by using a charting program on my GPS/computer/tablet.
That visit by the RCMP does not seem out of line to me. I imagine they only do those stops for areas where other boaters have run aground in the past.
_________________
Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR |
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DrewbirdII
Joined: 29 Sep 2012
Posts: 53
City/Region: fanny bay
State or Province: BC
C-Dory Year: 1989
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Drewbird II
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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Local knowledge is required for small craft without updated government charts onboard. When checked they will ask you a few questions to make sure you know the area, and how often you have traveled in that area. No assistance from outdated charts or plotters. I have boated all over the coast and have never been asked yet. I think if all your safety gear is in order and your not doing anything wrong... be polite and your on your way?
Jim |
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Saxe Point
Joined: 24 Jan 2012
Posts: 77
City/Region: Sooke
State or Province: BC
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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| DrewbirdII wrote: | Local knowledge is required for small craft without updated government charts onboard. When checked they will ask you a few questions to make sure you know the area, and how often you have traveled in that area. No assistance from outdated charts or plotters. I have boated all over the coast and have never been asked yet. I think if all your safety gear is in order and your not doing anything wrong... be polite and your on your way?
Jim |
My experience mirrors Jim’s. 10 years of boating and fishing the southern coast of Vancouver Island and I’ve never even met a regulatory authority out there! |
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