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Live aboard - advice on how to pay for it
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El and Bill



Joined: 08 Nov 2003
Posts: 3200
City/Region: Lakewood, CO
State or Province: CO
C-Dory Year: 2000
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Halcyon
Photos: Halcyon
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 3:58 pm    Post subject: Live aboard - advice on how to pay for it Reply with quote

We quit our teaching jobs at age 50, moved aboard a 22' C-Dory, and cruised her 42,000+ nautical miles on North American waters. On teachers salaries, retired early, how could we afford to do it? And can you?

Start now -- the earlier the better. Here's our tale:

http://cruisingamerica-halcyondays.com/invest.htm

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El and Bill (former live-aboards)
Halcyon 2000 CD 22 Bought 2000 Sold 2012
http://cruisingamerica-halcyondays.com/
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Edwin



Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 108
City/Region: Edmonton
State or Province: AB
C-Dory Year: 1990
C-Dory Model: 22 Angler
Vessel Name: Lady C
Photos: LADY C
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bill & El
You Two are very wise and good enough to still teach.
We always hope we can get many of your life lessons into our kids and Grand kids heads.
Colette & I figured out the financial part, now health is the precious commodity. Like you, we both retired early and thank God for that.
Always love your posts.
Ed
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El and Bill



Joined: 08 Nov 2003
Posts: 3200
City/Region: Lakewood, CO
State or Province: CO
C-Dory Year: 2000
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Halcyon
Photos: Halcyon
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Ed.

You mention the children and grandchildren. They are really the important folk when involved with investment learning. Being young, if they learn to invest, and start now with spare money from gifts or household jobs, time is on their side. Compound interest on those dividends from their investments can give them early retirement also, if they wish, or more financial security in older age.
We started an investment club for our grandkids (they named it WWTBAM - who wants to be a millionaire) and and we paid them a small gift for each class attended (if they invested that cash).
One g'kid, the oldest, discovered she made more from her investments in a week (a few weeks ago) than she did at her first full-time (post college) job that week!

All the g'kids have their own portfolios (even some still in high school) and they know how to invest. A great gift to them and something not usually taught in school or known by their peers.
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Sunbeam



Joined: 23 Feb 2012
Posts: 3990
City/Region: Out 'n' About
State or Province: Other
C-Dory Year: 2002
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: Sunbeam
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wish my grandparents (or parents) had taught me as you are doing with your family. Great information, and as you point out, not often taught. I didn't invest for years because I just didn't really get how to start, etc. It seemed like something for rich people who "had people" in finance (which wasn't me!).

Reading the section on your blog some years ago (which I think is what is linked above) was so helpful! Your classes/lessons with your grandkids are the deluxe version. Lucky them Thumbs Up
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colbysmith



Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Posts: 4523
City/Region: Madison
State or Province: WI
C-Dory Year: 2009
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Traveler
Photos: C-Traveler and Midnight-Flyer
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The easy part is teaching the kids about investing. (Or even spending priorities!) The hard part is getting them to do it! Sad
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Casey



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 1094
City/Region: The Villages(FL)
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: "Dessert 1st"
Photos: Dessert 1st
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:09 am    Post subject: Maybe relevant ... or not! Reply with quote

A simple thought on managing money:

If your OUTGO
Exceeds your INCOME...
Your UPKEEP
Will be your DOWNFALL

C&M

_________________
2013 CC23 "Katmai" renamed "Dessert 1st"
2006 CC23 "Katmai" (purchased August 2009)
2003 CD22 "Naknek" (sold May 2008)
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El and Bill



Joined: 08 Nov 2003
Posts: 3200
City/Region: Lakewood, CO
State or Province: CO
C-Dory Year: 2000
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Halcyon
Photos: Halcyon
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, Casey -- so true.

And, to encourage young ones, sign them up for an account with Fidelity, or another mutual fund company.. You can consign with them as parents or g'parents if they are younger than 18. Head into a Fidelity office, with an appointment with a representative.

Then, gift them a sum into that account, putting it in a cash account initially until they choose the mutual fund or funds that look best (with the help of the company rep. and you). If a large sum, get a promise that the sum be returned in a year and they keep any profits, - or if you wish, simply a gift they promise you to keep for retirement and it is a graduation gift or some such for them.

Help them learn how to invest. Look over their statements with them monthly -- rebalance things with them, so they can see their investments grow differentially. Let the Fidelity rep give them some lessons on investing -- the company has free on-line classes

They soon get the hang of it and often get excited. One of our g'kids, in a classroom discussion with their teacher, was asked about questions they would ask of any new boy friend said, "What's in your portfolio?"
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ghone



Joined: 13 Aug 2008
Posts: 1428
City/Region: Nanaimo
State or Province: BC
C-Dory Year: 2011
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Kerri On
Photos: Kerri On
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great stuff, I should have asked a girl friend what was in her portfolio! Could be Nordhavn man.
Casey's great formula works well. This is how come we quit early too, 53 for me not rich but you don't have to be just within your means
Let time grow your dough.
George
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colbysmith



Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Posts: 4523
City/Region: Madison
State or Province: WI
C-Dory Year: 2009
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Traveler
Photos: C-Traveler and Midnight-Flyer
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was due to my investing, and living within my means, that I too was able to retire early. Now days, especially the younger generation, they have to have everything. In our days, we didn't get new cars or buy name brand clothing. We worked as soon as we could, saving our pennies for things we wanted. And if we didn't have the money, we didn't get the thing. As parents, my generation is partially to blame for giving our kids so much. They have not had that opportunity to earn and save for what they want. Colby
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Casey



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 1094
City/Region: The Villages(FL)
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: "Dessert 1st"
Photos: Dessert 1st
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think this is a very important topic - particularly in today's economy.

"Retirement" (aka defined benefit retirement plans) are virtually thing's of the past. Retirements have morphed over into 401k's. IRA's and other (largely) self-funded financial plans. If one worked and SAVED diligently during their work years it was quite possible to live off the interest spun-off from that nest egg.

Now we're in a different interest rate environment. Gone are the days when you could safely put your money in 4-6% CD's and enjoy a decent lifestyle. Try doing that with a CD paying .015% ! As an alternative people are often in search for yield, and led to riskier investments. Sometime it works - sometime it doesn't.

Regardless of one's investment style, deciding what level of Life's "comfort tree" you want to occupy is crucial. The "comfort tree" is my metaphor for lifestyle. Some folks are only comfortable in the upper branches, and require massive homes, fancy cars, and affluent lifestyles. Others have learned to enjoy Life on somewhat lower branches of the "tree," and can be Very happy
with their more modest homes, cars, and Lifestyle.

I still revere the couple who retired at 50, explored the World from the comfort of their pickup and Alaskan camper ... and naturally, their C-Dory!

Examples and mentors to us All !

Best,
Casey&Mary
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Casey



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 1094
City/Region: The Villages(FL)
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: "Dessert 1st"
Photos: Dessert 1st
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think this is a very important topic - particularly in today's economy.

"Retirement" (aka defined benefit retirement plans) are virtually thing's of the past. Retirements have morphed over into 401k's. IRA's and other (largely) self-funded financial plans. If one worked and SAVED diligently during their work years it was quite possible to live off the interest spun-off from that nest egg.

Now we're in a different interest rate environment. Gone are the days when you could safely put your money in 4-6% CD's and enjoy a decent lifestyle. Try doing that with a CD paying .015% ! As an alternative people are often in search for yield, and led to riskier investments. Sometime it works - sometime it doesn't.

Regardless of one's investment style, deciding what level of Life's "comfort tree" you want to occupy is crucial. The "comfort tree" is my metaphor for lifestyle. Some folks are only comfortable in the upper branches, and require massive homes, fancy cars, and affluent lifestyles. Others have learned to enjoy Life on somewhat lower branches of the "tree," and can be Very happy
with their more modest homes, cars, and Lifestyle.

I still revere the couple who retired at 50, explored the World from the comfort of their pickup and Alaskan camper ... and naturally, their C-Dory!

Examples and mentors to us All !

Best,
Casey&Mary
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Casey



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 1094
City/Region: The Villages(FL)
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: "Dessert 1st"
Photos: Dessert 1st
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

...oop's
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El and Bill



Joined: 08 Nov 2003
Posts: 3200
City/Region: Lakewood, CO
State or Province: CO
C-Dory Year: 2000
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Halcyon
Photos: Halcyon
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, Casey. Putting investments into CD's doesn't work now, since the payout interest is very low. Best to consider low cost mutual funds, we think -- if you have time and interest to study those offered by one family of funds (like Vanguard or Fidelity) fine -- look at the risk and return of the individual funds, and select those which best fit your ability to handle your personality type ( how do you handle risk/reward?). Or, if you don't have time or interest, select a good index fund (index follows a market's up and downs, like the NASDAQ, Standard and Poor, etc) and invest in them. They generally do well and often beat a compilation of stocks by an investor).

Just save a percent of income every month and put into your investments for long term, don't carry any credit card debt, and enjoy your life!
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South of Heaven



Joined: 15 Aug 2015
Posts: 1459
City/Region: Sharon
State or Province: MA
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, investing early (and often) is the key. No doubt about that.
_________________
<><><> Jason <><><>

2005 Silverton 35 Motoryacht (Twin 385 Crusaders) (SOLD 6/20)

2000 Camano 31 Troll (Volvo TAMD41p) (SOLD 2/19)

2007 C Dory 25' Cruiser (200 hp Suzuki, sold 7/17)

2003 C Dory 19' Angler (80 hp Yamaha, sold 7/16)

1995 C Dory 16' Angler (40 hp Yamaha, sold 2/16)
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westward



Joined: 18 Feb 2005
Posts: 718
City/Region: Seattle
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a strong and growing movement (often referred to by the acronym FIRE: financial independence/retire early) which can be an excellent source of encouragement and education in this regard. My personal .02 on the matter goes something like this:
1. As mentioned before: invest EARLY and often, preferably within a tax deferred IRA or equivalent, taking advantage of employer matches first. There is tremendous power in the time value of compounding
2. Ditto again: for most investors, low-price equity index mutual funds are the best route. They beat a managed approach more than 75% of the time, and without all the costs. I also like Vanguard. For logical and very rational individuals, stock picking or the like may work.
3. Try to create a source of passive or semi-passive income early on. Many are impeded in leaving employment by loss of associated health care benefits, or the reality of bridging the gap between your actual retirement and age 59-1/2 when one can access one's IRA. If you have a goose regularly laying golden eggs without your being on-site, this becomes a math problem, nothing more.
4. Play good defense: Simplify, downsize, and eliminate debt. Losing a payment or an expensive-to-maintain luxury is like getting a raise of that same dollar amount. Remember that free time is a luxury in and of itself, and one you can never get back once its gone.
5. I don't like the work "retirement". Implies quitting or letting go, or disengaging. A dear and wise friend instead calls his situation "re-wirement". He believes it remains critical to stay engaged socially, with some meaningful work, to truly stay healthy. Service or volunteer work is a tonic for the soul. Start that business you always dreamed about, or take that course! Just don't plan on spending all your time golfing, fishing, traveling, etc. (as fun and important as those may be to you) once you leave the rat race or you will soon be breathing your own fumes. Note to self: nobody wants to hear the details of your latest European vacation for the entire evening together.
6. The earlier one quits conventional work, the longer the retirement period and thusly lower safe rate of withdrawl from one's retirement nest egg. It's also increasingly important to maintain a higher percentage of equity investments (vs. bonds, CD's, etc.) even in retirement. My personal plan: 3.5% SWR and 75% equities, at least until 70 y.o. It's also wise to plan ahead to avoid having to sell equities to fund early retirement in a declining market.
7. Due to the big hit incurred in reserving a % of a pension to a spouse, it can make more sense to have the vested spouse take 100%, then buy a series of level-term life insurance policies instead: say 1-10 year and 1-20 year, overlapping for 10). Get hard quotes and do the math. Don't ever buy life insurance as an investment in itself, however. Ignore this advice altogether if the vested spouse is in poor health.
8. Invest in your physical, emotional, relational, intellectual and spiritual health. We can often improve our odds of lasting happiness, health, and prosperity with a few regular disciplines, which tend to snowball in a positive way.

Sorry for the very long post, and for including so much personal opinion. I surely don't have life all figured out but I've been working on this area for a while and my wife and I are now beginning the process of leaving the rat race at 55 y.o. One of the nudges has been the brand-new 2014 boat I own that barely has 100 hours cause I'm working all the time and never get a chance to use it. Last year we used our Summer home less than 20 days total. And it regularly breaks my heart to see patients of mine having their lives turned upside down in their 60's, or 50's, or even earlier, with a grim cancer diagnosis. I would love to hear input from others on this topic.

Cheers! Mike
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