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rogerbum
Joined: 21 Nov 2004 Posts: 5922 City/Region: Kenmore
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Meant to be
Photos: SeaDNA
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Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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Pandion wrote: | rogerbum wrote: | When most of the fish disappear in the Alaska and BC fisheries before they return, we aren't fishing as much (or at all).. |
To what do you attribute that disappearance, Roger? Habitat? Ocean conditions? | Fishing. Specifically commercial fishing (native and non-native). The data that demonstrates this loss of returning fish is based on tags in hatchery fish recovered in Alaska and BC. _________________ Roger on Meant to be |
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Pandion
Joined: 02 Oct 2013 Posts: 274 City/Region: Kenmore
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2002
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Osprey
Photos: Osprey
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Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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rogerbum wrote: | Pandion wrote: | rogerbum wrote: | When most of the fish disappear in the Alaska and BC fisheries before they return, we aren't fishing as much (or at all).. |
To what do you attribute that disappearance, Roger? Habitat? Ocean conditions? | Fishing. Specifically commercial fishing (native and non-native). The data that demonstrates this loss of returning fish is based on tags in hatchery fish recovered in Alaska and BC. |
Just to be clear, Roger, you are talking about Washington state runs being interdicted in Alaska and B.C., correct?
... and if so, is this essentially a political problem? _________________
Andy Ryan
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rogerbum
Joined: 21 Nov 2004 Posts: 5922 City/Region: Kenmore
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Meant to be
Photos: SeaDNA
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Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:17 am Post subject: |
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Pandion wrote: | rogerbum wrote: | Pandion wrote: | rogerbum wrote: | When most of the fish disappear in the Alaska and BC fisheries before they return, we aren't fishing as much (or at all).. |
To what do you attribute that disappearance, Roger? Habitat? Ocean conditions? | Fishing. Specifically commercial fishing (native and non-native). The data that demonstrates this loss of returning fish is based on tags in hatchery fish recovered in Alaska and BC. |
Just to be clear, Roger, you are talking about Washington state runs being interdicted in Alaska and B.C., correct?
... and if so, is this essentially a political problem? |
Yes, WA state runs being interdicted before they return. That is a large part (but not the only part) of the problem.
ALL of the parts of the problem are ultimately political. Science can provide information on cause of problems and the likely effect of given policy changes but any policy changes will involve winners and losers.
Want better salmon habitat in rivers? You need to regulate land use around the rivers. That affects land owners. Also, you need other sources of energy than dams the limit passage. That affects rate payers. Also, you need to build roads and bridges and drainage systems differently. That affects tax payers.
Want more WA fish to return? You need to assure that WA fish are not caught in huge numbers PRIOR to their return. That affects BC and Alaska fishermen. You also need to agree to distributions of hatchery fish from each jurisdiction such that our hatchery fish have a fair shot at the food in the N Pacific and Bering Sea. That affects other states and countries.
Want more fish for recreational fisher people? Allow the commercial to catch less. That affects the jobs of the commercial fishing industry.
No matter what you do, it's a political choice and SOMEONE will lose SOMETHING. |
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AstoriaDave
Joined: 31 Oct 2005 Posts: 994 City/Region: Astoria
State or Province: OR
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Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:52 am Post subject: |
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Terrific synopsis, rogerbum. Ain't no free lunch ... everybody gets squeezed in competition for a scarce resource ... to a greater or lesser extent. The crux is figuring out how to maximize the resource while managing all the intersecting variables that allow us to live reasonable lives. _________________ Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR |
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Hunkydory
Joined: 28 Mar 2005 Posts: 2662 City/Region: Cokeville, Wyoming
State or Province: WY
C-Dory Year: 2000
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Hunkydory
Photos: Hunkydory-Jay-and-Jolee
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Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:40 am Post subject: |
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Roger, yes excellent & I agree with all you wrote. I always look forward to reading & thinking about your comments & have great respect for your opinion, whether I end up agreeing or not.
Jay _________________ Jay and Jolee 2000 22 CD cruiser Hunkydory
I will not waste my days in trying to prolong them------Jack London
https://share.delorme.com/JuliusByers |
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dotnmarty
Joined: 03 Nov 2003 Posts: 4196 City/Region: Sammamish
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1993
C-Dory Model: 16 Angler
Vessel Name: LIZZIE II
Photos: Lizzie
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Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:40 am Post subject: |
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Well, now that you all admit and agree that it is fundamentally a political problem, That's the easy part. OK, so the resource needs to be "managed". How do you do that? Who will do that ? It's those politicians and bureaucrats that you denigrate that have to make the hard choices. _________________ MartyP
"...we're all in the same boat..." |
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localboy
Joined: 30 Sep 2006 Posts: 4656 City/Region: Lake Stevens via Honolulu
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: 'Au Kai (Ocean Traveler)
Photos: 'AU KAI
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Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | No matter what you do, it's a political choice and SOMEONE will lose SOMETHING | .
Quote: | Frankly, I've had it with the right wing BS. |
Hmmmm....
Me thinks thou dos't protest too much... _________________ "We can go over there...behind the 'little one'....."
Wife to her husband pointing @ us...from the bow of their 50-footer; Prideaux Haven 2013 |
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dotnmarty
Joined: 03 Nov 2003 Posts: 4196 City/Region: Sammamish
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1993
C-Dory Model: 16 Angler
Vessel Name: LIZZIE II
Photos: Lizzie
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Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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how do I say this in a "nice "way....
Frankly my dear I don't give a good crap what thou thinketh.... |
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rogerbum
Joined: 21 Nov 2004 Posts: 5922 City/Region: Kenmore
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Meant to be
Photos: SeaDNA
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Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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localboy wrote: | Quote: | No matter what you do, it's a political choice and SOMEONE will lose SOMETHING | .
Quote: | Frankly, I've had it with the right wing BS. |
Hmmmm....
Me thinks thou dos't protest too much... |
Hmmmm.... me thinks thou dos't stir the pot too much. |
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localboy
Joined: 30 Sep 2006 Posts: 4656 City/Region: Lake Stevens via Honolulu
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: 'Au Kai (Ocean Traveler)
Photos: 'AU KAI
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Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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dotnmarty wrote: | how do I say this in a "nice "way....
Frankly my dear I don't give a good crap what thou thinketh.... |
And there you have it... |
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localboy
Joined: 30 Sep 2006 Posts: 4656 City/Region: Lake Stevens via Honolulu
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: 'Au Kai (Ocean Traveler)
Photos: 'AU KAI
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Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="rogerbum]Hmmmm.... me thinks thou dos't stir the pot too much.[/quote]
And there you have it... |
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hardee
Joined: 30 Oct 2006 Posts: 12633 City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
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Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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Political, Economical, Commercial, Ecological.
Yup, and the fix is going to require everyone to give up something. (That is hard to expect in today's society where everyone thinks they are "owed".)
Or Endowed.
Harvey
SleepyC
_________________ Though in our sleep we are not conscious of our activity or surroundings, we should not, in our wakefulness, be unconscious of our sleep. |
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Discovery
Joined: 08 Dec 2003 Posts: 1239 City/Region: LOA, UTAH
State or Province: UT
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Discovery
Photos: Discovery
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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 20841 City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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Brent, I will post this in the thread about the Cypress Island escape, and the termination of the fishery.
I see this virus as a grave danger, and something that all of us who are against fish farming fear.
Thanks for bringing this up! _________________ Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL |
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hardee
Joined: 30 Oct 2006 Posts: 12633 City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
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Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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thataway wrote: | Brent, I will post this in the thread about the Cypress Island escape, and the termination of the fishery.
I see this virus as a grave danger, and something that all of us who are against fish farming fear.
Thanks for bringing this up! |
Here is the link to that Cypress Island thread:
http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t=26119&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
Harvey
SleepyC
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