The C-Brats Forum Index
HomeForumsMy TopicsCalendarEvent SignupsMemberlistOur C-DorysThe Brat MapPhotos

The future of salmon in Puget Sound
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The C-Brats Forum Index -> Fishing
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
localboy



Joined: 30 Sep 2006
Posts: 4656
City/Region: Lake Stevens via Honolulu
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: 'Au Kai (Ocean Traveler)
Photos: 'AU KAI
PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:40 am    Post subject: The future of salmon in Puget Sound Reply with quote

https://tidalexchange.com/2018/01/04/wdfw-gives-up-puget-sound-fishing-for-nothing/
_________________
"We can go over there...behind the 'little one'....."
Wife to her husband pointing @ us...from the bow of their 50-footer; Prideaux Haven 2013
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
nimrod



Joined: 15 Jul 2008
Posts: 268
City/Region: Mount Vernon
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1996
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: 'Berta's Boy
Photos: 'Berta's Boy
PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well-written article, and all true.

Full disclosure - I was the Stillaguamish Tribal Fisheries Mgmt Biologist for 30 years.

We had a saying in my office that succinctly described the problem in two words. It comes from the movie "Soylent Green".

"It's people!"

jd
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
localboy



Joined: 30 Sep 2006
Posts: 4656
City/Region: Lake Stevens via Honolulu
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: 'Au Kai (Ocean Traveler)
Photos: 'AU KAI
PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JD, you beat me to it. I was gonna contact you once I'm home from work...I figured if anyone had any insight, it'd be YOU.

I read it and realized the future looks pretty bleak. I'm not a hard-core salmon fisher, but my brother is, as are numerous buddies. I think the thing that is really interesting is this all appears to be "agreed to" behind closed doors.

Happy Holidays...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
nimrod



Joined: 15 Jul 2008
Posts: 268
City/Region: Mount Vernon
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1996
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: 'Berta's Boy
Photos: 'Berta's Boy
PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The bottom line of the article is that habitat limits fish production. Everywhere. The efforts of those who are pissed off because of fishing closures should be directed at those officials who are responsible for allowing continued habitat degradation. Politics always trumps biology. Always. Unfortunately, fish don't vote. So until politicians hear from their constituents that fish habitat loss is important, they won't care, and things won't change.

jd
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Spike



Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 572
City/Region: Kent
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Bootleg Hooch
Photos: Bootleg Hooch
PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And the gutting of the EPA continues..............
_________________
Chuck
Bootleg Hooch
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Hunkydory



Joined: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 2652
City/Region: Cokeville, Wyoming
State or Province: WY
C-Dory Year: 2000
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Hunkydory
Photos: Hunkydory-Jay-and-Jolee
PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My not so cheery winter thoughts for today. Yes, it’s the people as in numbers of people. When I was a youngster in the early 1960’s few of these problems were evident at least in the West, the US had around 180,000,000 people now 325,000,000. Yet our birth rates are now at a historic low. To many of the folk, who are active in wanting to solve our environmental problems are the same ones who support the politicians who proscribe to semi or completely open borders wanting cheap labor for both small & large business & votes to keep them in power. The example here of the fish is a microcosm of our country & then of the world. All that is being done & most likely will be done to address these problems are like the little boys finger in the Dutch dike, until the root problem of to many people for the environment to support is addressed. We are a long ways down the road from the days when small tribes lived along the river & overfishing was not a concern, much like the plains Indians & buffalo hunting. In the long run, the Stillaguamish chinook are doomed much like the buffalo were. Allowing even more fishing could make their demise quick or working on habitat slow, but the fish like the buffalo are doomed with the continued drastic increase in human population. I see a even more reduced will in this increased population to make the changes necessary for a positive outcome for the fish & intern, eventually for us.

Jay

_________________
Jay and Jolee 2000 22 CD cruiser Hunkydory
I will not waste my days in trying to prolong them------Jack London
https://share.delorme.com/JuliusByers
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
oldguy83



Joined: 22 Mar 2013
Posts: 44
City/Region: minnesota
PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jay you are so right.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Sea Wolf



Joined: 01 Nov 2003
Posts: 8650
City/Region: Redding
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 1987
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sea Wolf
Photos: Sea Wolf
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jay-

Great insight and concisely written!

And sadly true.........

Joe. Disgust

_________________
Sea Wolf, C-Brat #31
Lake Shasta, California

"Most of my money I spent on boats and women. The rest I squandered'. " -Annonymous
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
localboy



Joined: 30 Sep 2006
Posts: 4656
City/Region: Lake Stevens via Honolulu
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: 'Au Kai (Ocean Traveler)
Photos: 'AU KAI
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I look at Kalifornia and see what the future holds, if things don't change. Jay, your evaluation is spot on.

My in-laws used to live on the Stilly, outside Granite Falls. Their property was the river bank, literally. They followed all the enviro/building rules/codes. After yrs on the river they sold. They were flooded more than a few times, once losing a motor home. Never once did I see any fish in that stretch, even during spawning season.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
dotnmarty



Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 4196
City/Region: Sammamish
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1993
C-Dory Model: 16 Angler
Vessel Name: LIZZIE II
Photos: Lizzie
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well Jay, you're right. As Peanuts said, "we have met the enemy and it is us..."
_________________
MartyP

"...we're all in the same boat..."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
nimrod



Joined: 15 Jul 2008
Posts: 268
City/Region: Mount Vernon
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1996
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: 'Berta's Boy
Photos: 'Berta's Boy
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The South Fork Stillaguamish is an interesting case study in salmon habitat. Downstream of Granite Falls the river is nearly barren of fish and there is virtually no habitat that is suitable for salmon. Snohomish County permits development of riverfront property and most of it is, below the falls. Upstream of the falls there's an entirely different story. There is little development of riverfront property due both to accessibility and USFS ownership. You'd be hard-pressed to find more beautiful salmon habitat than upstream of the falls. Unfortunately, few salmon or steelhead make it above the falls because it's a nearly impassable barrier. Some do though. I've personally seen both steelhead and Chinook above the falls. But they number in the 10's, not nearly enough to be a self-sustaining population.

jd
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
smckean (Tosca)



Joined: 18 Jan 2014
Posts: 974
City/Region: Guemes Island (Anacortes)
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Tosca
Photos: Tosca
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isn't there a fish ladder at Granite Falls (the river falls)?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Marco Flamingo



Joined: 09 Jul 2015
Posts: 1154
City/Region: Seattle
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 16 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Limpet
Photos: Limpet
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nimrod wrote:

"It's people!"

jd


Washington is one of the fastest growing states. And the new tax bill doubles the child tax credit? Who decided that we need more children and that people who don't have children should subsidize those who have lots? Shouldn't there at least be a numeric limit? When will people finally figure out that what we need is a tax deduction for people not having children? 9 billion? 11 billion?

I always voted for property tax increases for schools. My theory was that we needed smarter children. That hasn't worked out. I voted against my first one last year. I have a new theory. There is only so much intelligence in the world. We are now dividing the pie up in very thin slices.

Mark
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
nimrod



Joined: 15 Jul 2008
Posts: 268
City/Region: Mount Vernon
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1996
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: 'Berta's Boy
Photos: 'Berta's Boy
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes, there is a fish ladder. But it was poorly engineered and fills up with debris most years. As a result it's a maintenance nightmare and WDFW doesn't have the staffing or funds to keep up with it.

My point was that there is a direct correlation between fish habitat quality and riparian land-use. Alaska is another example. Abundant Alaskan wild salmon production is a result of the pristine quality of the habitat there.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hunkydory



Joined: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 2652
City/Region: Cokeville, Wyoming
State or Province: WY
C-Dory Year: 2000
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Hunkydory
Photos: Hunkydory-Jay-and-Jolee
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marco Flamingo wrote:
nimrod wrote:

"It's people!"

jd


Washington is one of the fastest growing states. And the new tax bill doubles the child tax credit? Who decided that we need more children and that people who don't have children should subsidize those who have lots? Shouldn't there at least be a numeric limit? When will people finally figure out that what we need is a tax deduction for people not having children? 9 billion? 11 billion?

I always voted for property tax increases for schools. My theory was that we needed smarter children. That hasn't worked out. I voted against my first one last year. I have a new theory. There is only so much intelligence in the world. We are now dividing the pie up in very thin slices.

Mark

Your theory on intelligence & dividing had JoLee & I laughing.

My thought on the 1st part are thus; In the US, as of 1972 our replacement birth rate has not increased our population.

http://www.susps.org/overview/immigration.html

Still, the people, who are having most of the children are the ones, who can afford them the least. The world population has increased to over 7 billion & as much as our country is subject to degradation here & abroad, it is still a wonderland & magnet of opportunity to enough of those 7 billion people to turn this country into what they are justifiably trying to escape. So our own more recent huge population increase is not due to birth rates, but rather the huge increase in both legal & illegal immigration & to “give us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breath free” not apropos to our present state.

Jay
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The C-Brats Forum Index -> Fishing All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Page 1 of 6

 
     Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum



Page generation time: 0.1319s (PHP: 79% - SQL: 21%) - SQL queries: 33 - GZIP disabled - Debug on