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hardee



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 12632
City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stuff clipped:
Quote:

thataway wrote:
The only issue with the radio, is it probably does not have DSC. Not an essential--but you know how much 2 meters have changed in the last 20 years...or not..


Quote:
Thanks for pointing out DSC... I was not aware of it. Sounds very handy.


There is plenty of discussion on the site about DSC and it's applications (uses). Yes it is new(er) and modern technology. Yes it can be VERY helpful in an emergency. Yes it can be useful in communication with other vessels. AND YES, you will have to have a number from the FCC (or BoatUS, or Power Squadron) that is called MMSI # and it has to be entered into the VHF radio. And Yes, the radio will have to have GPS either inside or input from an external GPS device. All easily doable and can be don relatively inexpensively. I am not advocating keeping an old, non DSC radio as your only VHF, but that a new(er) DSC capable VHF be added or installed as a replacement. That will allow the "One Button" Emergency transmission for a Mayday Call that none of us ever want to do.

That "One Button" call takes 5 seconds to get out who you are, where you are, what you are - boat info, size, typical passenger load, and onboard safety equipment. All while you are getting ready to get into the water, not answering a dozen questions from the Coast Guard.

A good, well setup VHF is probably your most important on board safety device. Well, next to common sense.

Harvey
SleepyC Moon


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starcrafttom



Joined: 07 Nov 2003
Posts: 7878
City/Region: marysville
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1984
C-Dory Model: 27 Cruiser
Vessel Name: to be decided later
Photos: Susan E
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, I used to live in Placerville and have fished all the lakes you are talking about and the delta. I never even saw a boat with radar until I moved to washingon so I would not really bother with getting one. You can get a modern fish finder / chart plotter for around 400 to 600 dollars. fish finder Here is one example that will do everything you need for $500.

I fished all the lakes in the sierras for years with out a depth finder at all and never with a chart plotter. They did not exist back then . My fish fish finder was a 3 inch screen with no map. I thought it was the greats thing at the time. I can buy the equivalent unit today , only much better , for under a hundred bucks. Enjoy the boat.

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http://tomsfishinggear.blogspot.com/
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sculpin



Joined: 13 Feb 2012
Posts: 14
City/Region: Atascadero, San Luis Obispo County
State or Province: CA
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:22 pm    Post subject: Project Reply with quote

I think the idea of having an experienced CBrat look at the boat is great. Might give you better advice than a surveyor. Also the surveyor is going to cost. Maybe it would be worthwhile to have a good outboard mechanic go over the engines, service them and advise you on their condition.

It would be great if you kept the boat and used it and really enjoyed it, but boating isn't for everyone and you may have other priorities. If that is the case you may decide to sell. If you're going to sell you probably don't want to put much money into the boat other than cleaning it up and servicing the engines.

A lot of good ideas from Cbrats on this topic. Good luck.

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sculpin



Joined: 13 Feb 2012
Posts: 14
City/Region: Atascadero, San Luis Obispo County
State or Province: CA
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:52 pm    Post subject: Project Reply with quote

I think the idea of having an experienced CBrat look at the boat is great. Might give you better advice than a surveyor. Also the surveyor is going to cost. Maybe it would be worthwhile to have a good outboard mechanic go over the engines, service them and advise you on their condition.

It would be great if you kept the boat and used it and really enjoyed it, but boating isn't for everyone and you may have other priorities. If that is the case you may decide to sell. If you're going to sell you probably don't want to put much money into the boat other than cleaning it up and servicing the engines.

A lot of good ideas from Cbrats on this topic. Good luck.
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garyf



Joined: 01 Sep 2015
Posts: 167
City/Region: Lincoln
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 1991
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Story
Photos: C-Story
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 4:22 pm    Post subject: Dad's VHF antenna mount - can it be improved? Reply with quote

I took the old cover off today... wanted to wait until I had a reasonable idea where I was going to get a new cover and what the turnaround time would be.

Overall things look darn good cosmetically - haven't seen any obvious problems with the gelcoat or anything. Like pretty much everything else he owns, it doesn't at all look as old as it is.

One question I have is relates to the way he has the VHF antenna mounted - picture below. This is the way it was under the cover... and the cover had a sock in it to handle this.

Am I correct in thinking the sock should be able to be eliminated??? At minimum, it seems like the top part could be removed all the way down to the lower joint... and possibly the lower part could even be removed, although I'd be worried about repetitive use of the threads in the block of whatever material he has attached to the roof (I'm afraid to say it actually looks like it might be wood... but tough be sure in the blinding Nevada sun right now).

The good news is, he removed the Loran-C antenna mount and patched the roof where it was. I bet that was tough for him to admit Loran was history.

This weekend's goal was to figure out the details I need to send to the cover company so I can get the new cover on the way... so I need to make a decision about this mount.

-------


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C-Story
'91 22 ft Cruiser
'08 Yamaha 90
KC3PO
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20779
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking at your and your dad's photos, this is the VHF antenna, on the aft starboard outer side of the cabin top. Only a few put the VHF antenna aft here (mostly in concert with a pipe frame radar arch). The longer (8') antenna shown in the photos, is good for a little longer range (about a mile) over some of the other options. The 8' antenna will have a higher "gain" My experience is that my signal is heard and I receive as well as folks with the 8 foot antennas, so the difference in practice is minima...

I prefer the 36" SS whip with a loaded base, on a 25" 1" SS Tubing, which can be folded down to be parallel to the cabin roof. Well meaning and poorly informed people trying to be helpful often grab white fiberglass antennas. The result is breakage. Also the 8' antenna folded down will be longer than the roof of the C Glory 22, and stick into the cockpit or forward of the cabin house.

I have one of the antennas described above on each side of my boat--and just have a re-inforcement sewn over the antenna mount (covered with antenna attached and folded down aft).

How was the antenna coaxial cable led into the boat? Generally these are fixed to the antenna, and cannot be removed. (A few will have a PL 259 connector right at the antenna, but then that means putting a mating barrel connector or a female SO 239 connector.

So I would remove this ratchet mount--you may be able to use it again forward, and ask for a re-inforcement (several extra layers of fabric sewn inside of the cover) over the area where you will eventually put the antenna. The antenna must be at least 3 feet long, but I prefer it not be any longer than necessary, because there is some feed line gain loss.

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Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL
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garyf



Joined: 01 Sep 2015
Posts: 167
City/Region: Lincoln
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 1991
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Story
Photos: C-Story
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:25 pm    Post subject: Dad's VHF antenna mount - can it be improved? Reply with quote

I was obviously in too tight to give you proper perspective of where the mount was located... but this is actually the forward port mount. The aft starboard mount is the one that has been removed and patched.

If the aft starboard mount used to be VHF... it appears that he intended to use this one for VHF moving forward.

As you suggest, the coax appears to be permanently connected to the base of the antenna and he fed the coax (all... what appears to be 25 or maybe even 50 feet of it...) through a hole in the vertical dogleg of the cabin roof outboard and below the mount that you see. Any advantage he had with the 8 ft antenna was lost in the long run of coax. Obviously, dad was not a ham and did not consult his ham son on this one. The distance from the base of this mount to where he mounts the radio is maybe 3 feet, max.

Your antenna setup sounds interesting - are you intentionally using the lower SS tube as a counterpoise? It sounds like you essentially have a vertical dipole, or something close. Was the 25" a length specifically chosen for the frequency, or just happened to be the size you used? If you have two antennas, is the other for 2m or something... or redundant for marine VHF? How are you connecting the whip to the tubing? Does the coax run up through the inside of the tubing?
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20779
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

These approximately 36" (Are adjustable and the 36" is generically used although they are slightly longer) whips are base loaded--no counter poise needed. The base extensions are sized in 12", 24", on up to 48 or more on custom order. (I should have put 24"...

The 1/2 wave of channel 16 on Marine VHF is 37.65 inches. I have not recently checked the tuning of my current antennas, but in the past found the whips pretty close to half wave at channel 16.. (The band runs from 156 MHz to slightly over 162 MHz. Generally tune for the 156.800 which is channel 16. Most of the commonly used channels are close to the 156.8, with the higher end being receive in the duplex channel, and the AIS signals (and the reason for best AIS to have a separate antenna).

Actually the loss in the coax depends on which coax it is, but the 8 DB gain is more than the loss. Since you are a ham, you know that as the gain increases the pattern horizontally narrows. Thus the heeling or rolling effect becomes more important--but this is mostly in sail boats.

The older photos of the boat showed what appeared to be a Loran C antenna in the center of the boat, with a coupler at its base--and so I made a false assumption... I can see when the VHF antenna was aft, that the cable went further aft, and probably entered at some point under the lip of the top.



Where you want to place the antenna depends on what other instruments you may want to use. Radar seems to have been ruled out--and that is what traditionally would go in the center.

You can just remove the upper part at the ratchet point and bolt. Then have a re-enforcement or small pocket sewn over this...if you want--or completely remove the mount, and fill the holes. There is much more tension on the cover for a device in the center (if this is in the center) than one off to the sides, where the fabric has gone over the hand rail, and is then going over the lip of the cabin top.
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garyf



Joined: 01 Sep 2015
Posts: 167
City/Region: Lincoln
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 1991
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Story
Photos: C-Story
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thataway wrote:
Actually the loss in the coax depends on which coax it is, but the 8 DB gain is more than the loss. Since you are a ham, you know that as the gain increases the pattern horizontally narrows. Thus the heeling or rolling effect becomes more important--but this is mostly in sail boats.


Correct. There isn't any marking on the coax so I don't know what it is - but it does seem like pretty lightweight stuff. You're right that the loss won't completely offset the 8db gain, but it just seems wasteful to have that much coax when it's not needed. I'm not convinced the VHF is a true "gain" type antenna (like collinear), but I'll investigate more when I get to that.

thataway wrote:
The older photos of the boat showed what appeared to be a Loran C antenna in the center of the boat, with a coupler at its base--and so I made a false assumption... I can see when the VHF antenna was aft, that the cable went further aft, and probably entered at some point under the lip of the top.


You are correct - it is the Loran forward and VHF aft in that picture. The Loran is offset more than it appears, though. The masthead light is centerline, the Loran is not. Here's a shot I took from an upstairs window that does a better job of showing the offset of the forward mount - the aft mount was similarly offset to starboard (probably can't see it in the picture, but up close I can see where the roof was patched. He takes the hand rails off for storage.



thataway wrote:
You can just remove the upper part at the ratchet point and bolt. Then have a re-enforcement or small pocket sewn over this.


Sounds like a plan. I'll be calling in the cover order tomorrow.
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