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localboy



Joined: 30 Sep 2006
Posts: 4656
City/Region: Lake Stevens via Honolulu
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: 'Au Kai (Ocean Traveler)
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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 8:08 pm    Post subject: Suzuki fuel gauge dead Reply with quote

Need some advice on what I should check for. It was working last season; now nothing. Does not move at all. I cleaned and checked the sending unit in the fuel tank. No change. Nothing looks different. The entire Suzuki gauge pack seems wired in parallel and the other gauges (engine tilt & volts) are functioning.
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South of Heaven



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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 9:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Suzuki fuel gauge dead Reply with quote

localboy wrote:
Need some advice on what I should check for. It was working last season; now nothing. Does not move at all. I cleaned and checked the sending unit in the fuel tank. No change. Nothing looks different. The entire Suzuki gauge pack seems wired in parallel and the other gauges (engine tilt & volts) are functioning.


Year, make and model of the engine? Is the gauge getting power? You didn't mention the Tach and hour meter; are they working too?

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2000 Camano 31 Troll (Volvo TAMD41p) (SOLD 2/19)

2007 C Dory 25' Cruiser (200 hp Suzuki, sold 7/17)

2003 C Dory 19' Angler (80 hp Yamaha, sold 7/16)

1995 C Dory 16' Angler (40 hp Yamaha, sold 2/16)
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
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City/Region: Pensacola
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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Consider that the fuel tank sender is an arm attached to a rheostat. There is about 200 ohms resistance across this. Testing is as below:

From Jamestown Marine:

Fuel Systems (Marine)
Voltage - "I" to "G" terminal - 10 to 16 volts.
Test gauge as follows: Connect "hot" wire to the "I" terminal and ground wire to "G" terminal. Remove sender (usually pink) wire from back of gauge. Gauge should read below "EMPTY". Next, add a short wire from the gauge's "S" (sender) terminal to ground. Gauge should read above "FULL." If the pointer sweeps back and forth, gauge is OK.
The sender can be tested by checking its resistance with a volt/ohm test meter (use analog meter) as follows:
Remove sender (usually pink) wire from sender.
Connect two test meter wires to two sender terminals (or center terminal & flange if sender has only one terminal).
Move float arm by hand. Approximate values: Empty = 240 ohms, 1/2 = 103 ohms, Full = 33 ohms. (Teleflex sender: rheostat housing installed upside down will cause gauge to read backwards. See illustration.)
Sender resistance tolerances at full may cause the gauge to read 2-3 pointer widths either side of the full mark.
The sender will accurately operate only one standard gauge at a time. It is not designed for dual station use with standard gauges.
Gauge will not operate accurately from more than one sender at a time. Some installations use a switch to connect one gauge to various tanks, one at a time.
Sender will not operate in water tanks. Rheostat will become electrically "open".
Be certain sender dimensions are adjusted per the instruction sheet.
If sender is "open" (infinite resistance) gauge will read below empty. If sender is shorted (0 resistance) gauge will read above "FULL".
Some "bowing" of the flange may occur when the 5 mounting screws are tightened. The gasket under the flange will normally seal the flange properly, but do not overtighten the mounting screws.
Sender must be grounded, or gauge will always read "EMPTY."
If sender is installed in a tank not designed for a sender, care must be taken to seal screw threads. Sealant under screw head is also advisable. Sealant must withstand gas and diesel fuels.


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Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL
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BrentB



Joined: 15 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob

Thanks for posting!

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Aurelia



Joined: 21 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good luck on the testing Mark. If your was as accurate as ours on the 25, you might not miss it much. After trying to use ours for some guidance, we ended up just setting a GPS based trip meter and that worked out well. You could always replace it with a sticker.

https://www.amazon.com/Gauge-Level-Funny-Helmet-Stickers/dp/B00OSAL480

Greg

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localboy



Joined: 30 Sep 2006
Posts: 4656
City/Region: Lake Stevens via Honolulu
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: 'Au Kai (Ocean Traveler)
Photos: 'AU KAI
PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going to ground out the sender today and see if the gauge changes at all. I did some reading last night on it. Very similar instructions to what Dr Bob posted. If the sender tests OK, I'll use his instructions to test the gauge.

Greg, you are correct. The thing is not accurate and it bounced around, but it does give you some idea of what you have left. If I can't get it to work, I'm gonna fill the boat and go off the Garmin unit since we have a fuel use sensor now (GFS10 I believe). The full tank will give me a better starting point than I currently have.

The tach is working fine as is the "hour meter" when you first hit the key to power the system. It's a 2006 Suzuki DF150 with appropriate gauge cluster. Even has a useless "speedometer". Laughing
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localboy



Joined: 30 Sep 2006
Posts: 4656
City/Region: Lake Stevens via Honolulu
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: 'Au Kai (Ocean Traveler)
Photos: 'AU KAI
PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After doing a simple test (grounded the pink wire) I determined the sender was bad. I pulled it and confirmed it was via an ohm resistance test. Tested OK "full" but as I "emptied" it, the meter showed no reading. Purchased a new WEMA brand from Fisheries Supply and the gauge is back working.

All electrical should be as easy to understand to a novice like me. It did educate me on resistance, ohm measurement, how to use a multi-meter to figure it all out though.

The tank is just under 10" (~9 7/8") deep so I purchased a 9" WEMA unit, in case anyone else with a 25 encounters this. The original sender was an arm/float type, like an old toilet tank. The new WEMA one is a float that moves up and down on the shaft. More reliable, or so the inter-web says....

https://www.fisheriessupply.com/wema-usa-sss-ssl-flanged-fuel-water-tank-sensor
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AstoriaDave



Joined: 31 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

local boy,

Good on ya for this: All electrical should be as easy to understand to a novice like me. It did educate me on resistance, ohm measurement, how to use a multi-meter to figure it all out though.

Does my old teacher heart good to see this. A volt-ohm meter is a really versatile tool.

Agree the stock tank swing arm sensors suck.

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Astoria, OR
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localboy



Joined: 30 Sep 2006
Posts: 4656
City/Region: Lake Stevens via Honolulu
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: 'Au Kai (Ocean Traveler)
Photos: 'AU KAI
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave, I have no problem admitting I don't know everything (contrary to what my wife might say Wink ). Electrical (both car & boat) has always been my Achilles heel, along with dual carb synch/adjustment. I ask dumb questions, read what I can and fumble fark my way thru when possible. The more I learn, the more confident I become. When we stop learning we best just lay down and die...slowly.

Aloha, Mark
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cmetzenberg



Joined: 04 Jan 2014
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City/Region: Santa Barbara
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Kanaloa
Photos: Kanaloa
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2020 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thataway wrote:
Consider that the fuel tank sender is an arm attached to a rheostat. There is about 200 ohms resistance across this. Testing is as below:

From Jamestown Marine:

Fuel Systems (Marine)
Voltage - "I" to "G" terminal - 10 to 16 volts.
Test gauge as follows: Connect "hot" wire to the "I" terminal and ground wire to "G" terminal. Remove sender (usually pink) wire from back of gauge. Gauge should read below "EMPTY". Next, add a short wire from the gauge's "S" (sender) terminal to ground. Gauge should read above "FULL." If the pointer sweeps back and forth, gauge is OK.
The sender can be tested by checking its resistance with a volt/ohm test meter (use analog meter) as follows:
Remove sender (usually pink) wire from sender.
Connect two test meter wires to two sender terminals (or center terminal & flange if sender has only one terminal).
Move float arm by hand. Approximate values: Empty = 240 ohms, 1/2 = 103 ohms, Full = 33 ohms. (Teleflex sender: rheostat housing installed upside down will cause gauge to read backwards. See illustration.)
Sender resistance tolerances at full may cause the gauge to read 2-3 pointer widths either side of the full mark.
The sender will accurately operate only one standard gauge at a time. It is not designed for dual station use with standard gauges.
Gauge will not operate accurately from more than one sender at a time. Some installations use a switch to connect one gauge to various tanks, one at a time.
Sender will not operate in water tanks. Rheostat will become electrically "open".
Be certain sender dimensions are adjusted per the instruction sheet.
If sender is "open" (infinite resistance) gauge will read below empty. If sender is shorted (0 resistance) gauge will read above "FULL".
Some "bowing" of the flange may occur when the 5 mounting screws are tightened. The gasket under the flange will normally seal the flange properly, but do not overtighten the mounting screws.
Sender must be grounded, or gauge will always read "EMPTY."
If sender is installed in a tank not designed for a sender, care must be taken to seal screw threads. Sealant under screw head is also advisable. Sealant must withstand gas and diesel fuels.



Hi Bob,
I'm having some issues with my stbd fuel gauging system. Both port and stbd sensors have exactly 7 volts going to them (kinda seems low?). No issues with the port; currently the tank is full reading 30 ohms across the sensor. Stbd tank is also full, reading 40 ohms across the sensor. For a reason i'm not sure of the, the stbd sensor is only showing half full and the needle is jumping. Any ideas?

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07' Tomcat 255 "Kanaloa"
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20778
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2020 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First I would swap the gauges, or really just put the Starboard wiring to the port gauge after pulpit the port tank wiring off. This will let you know if it is the gauge.

As the usual suspect is Corrosion, I would also go and clean up all of the terminals. Probably the last place is going to be the most difficult--and that is the actual sender. But at least clean up those connections (including the ground).
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cmetzenberg



Joined: 04 Jan 2014
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C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thataway wrote:
First I would swap the gauges, or really just put the Starboard wiring to the port gauge after pulpit the port tank wiring off. This will let you know if it is the gauge.

As the usual suspect is Corrosion, I would also go and clean up all of the terminals. Probably the last place is going to be the most difficult--and that is the actual sender. But at least clean up those connections (including the ground).


I cleaned up both terminals with not resolution of issue. Given the spacing i'd have to rig up some jumpers to get from one side to the other but it is doable. I feel i should also check the voltage at the gauge. I'll post my findings.
-Thanks,
Conrad
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Should be pretty short jumpers since the gauges are close together on the console as I recollect. I usually carry 4 short alligator clip jumpers in my electrical bag, and then several long lengths of wire--thus able to make jumpers even the length of the boat if necessary..

Good on cleaning the terminals!
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cmetzenberg



Joined: 04 Jan 2014
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City/Region: Santa Barbara
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C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Kanaloa
Photos: Kanaloa
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2020 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thataway wrote:
Should be pretty short jumpers since the gauges are close together on the console as I recollect. I usually carry 4 short alligator clip jumpers in my electrical bag, and then several long lengths of wire--thus able to make jumpers even the length of the boat if necessary..

Good on cleaning the terminals!


Well Bob, in my troubleshooting the fuel arm fell off into the tank on the tank that was working...i think i'm going to buy two new fuel sending units. Got any part numbers?
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2020 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are fuel units which may be better than the EOM: You have to know the depth of the tank of course. Most all have the same resistance value.

Example is SSS/SSL Sender – SAE 5 Hole Pattern Mount American Standard 240-33 ohms (240 ohms at empty, 33 ohms at full)
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