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Freezer/Refrigerators, portable
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Aurelia



Joined: 21 Aug 2009
Posts: 2331
City/Region: Gig Harbor
State or Province: WA
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for that link Bob, I just ordered one of those simple meters and will put it on the incoming Solar feed for more specific readings while the victron is busy with other loads.

Greg

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Greg, Cindie & Aven
Gig Harbor
Aurelia - 25 Cruiser sold 2012
Ari - 19 Cruiser sold 2023
currently exploring with "Lia", 17 ft Bullfrog Supersport Pilothouse
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smckean (Tosca)



Joined: 18 Jan 2014
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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2016 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just had a Victron installed. I'm very happy with it.

I think the most useful part of it is the shunt. It measures ALL the amp-hours both in and out of the battery bank. There is no dependence on projecting the SOC based on a voltage reading since instead one is always measuring the actual electron flow in or out of the battery. I find it satisfying to know, for example, that last night 25.6 Amp-hours flowed out of the battery; so since my house bank is 120 amp-hours, I know just where I stand (the Victron has a display that does this SOC calculation for you, but I prefer just knowing the actual amp-hours I've used, or conversely, the amp-hours I've charged).

Thataway, I looked at that $19 meter link. Certainly is cheaper, but it seems to have a fatal flaw; to wit, if the current reverses (that is, even a short burst of charge such as when you briefly start your engine and the batteries charge briefly), the meter resets itself to zero. At that point you have lost any data as to how many amp-hours you have used. With the Victron, one can also watch the amps flowing back into the battery to see how you are doing in the struggle to replace the amp-hours you used. Again, I take comfort in knowing that I've used, say, 25.6 amp-hours since I was last at 100%, and now that I'm charging, I can watch that negative number melt away amp-hour by amp-hour toward zero.
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Salmon Fisher



Joined: 07 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2016 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great comments from the experts, you guys are great!
Would the Victron 700 be the one to get since I am only concerned with monitoring the house bank?

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Patrick and Kim Walker

2004 25 Cruiser-Present

2000 22 Cruiser 2009-2014 (Sold)
2006 25 Cruiser 2014-2019 (Sold)
1985 22 Classic -2019 (Sold)
1991 19 Arima Sea Ranger-2019-2021 (Sold)
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1987 22 Cruiser -2021-2023 (Sold)

Honey, this REALLY will be my last boat, honest!
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Aurelia



Joined: 21 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2016 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thats the one Patrick. It replaced the 600 series that I am using and adds a few more specialty/wireless monitoring features. If you find a deal on the older 600s or the 602 units, they are still a great monitoring tool.

Greg
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smckean (Tosca)



Joined: 18 Jan 2014
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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2016 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Would the Victron 700 be the one to get since I am only concerned with monitoring the house bank?

Yes. The 702 model does 2 banks. I saw no reason to do detailed monitoring of the "start" battery. The 702 also has some other fancy features which consider such data as temperature; but again, I felt those features were rather uninteresting to me.

Note: the stunt is btwn the home battery bank negative terminal and all negative wires returning to that bank. That way every electron pulled to/ from the battery gets counted no matter how things are wired up.
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2016 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

smckean (Tosca) wrote:
I just had a Victron installed. I'm very happy with it.

Thataway, I looked at that $19 meter link. Certainly is cheaper, but it seems to have a fatal flaw; to wit, if the current reverses (that is, even a short burst of charge such as when you briefly start your engine and the batteries charge briefly), the meter resets itself to zero. At that point you have lost any data as to how many amp-hours you have used. With the Victron, one can also watch the amps flowing back into the battery to see how you are doing in the struggle to replace the amp-hours you used. Again, I take comfort in knowing that I've used, say, 25.6 amp-hours since I was last at 100%, and now that I'm charging, I can watch that negative number melt away amp-hour by amp-hour toward zero.


Not entirely correct from my understanding: If you reverse the flow thru the shunt, it will reset the meter to zero. But if the charging circuits bypass the shunt, it does not reset. Ie: if the negative lead from the battery charger or solar panel go directly to the negative terminal of the battery--the meter keeps reading current outflow. It all depends on what you want to do, and how you manage the battery. For example in my case, I use a 30 amp battery charger driven by the Honda EU 1000I. If it resets, that is fine, since I have read the information before I start the generator. In fact that is my criteria for charge.
There are other flaws--such as the manual reset, and not being waterproof. But I manually reset, since I don't put any charge current thru the shunt.

If I was buying new now, I probably would buy a Victron 702, temperature is useful if you are "pushing" the charge into a battery, and on my RV, there is a temperature sensor, and that feeds back into the charging circuit (charger is capable of 110 amps). A temperature sensor protects the battery from getting too hot. The 702 with temp sensor is going to be about $70 more than the 700. If you wish can read the voltage off the start battery in a number of other ways. My Link reads start battery voltage. If you are running the electronics off the start battery (not recommended), you can read the temp off most MDF's.

If one wanted to use separate instruments to measure current in and out at a specific time, this may be more useful than the single Victron. You would have to wire the second shunt differently to get current in. If the Victron is similar to my Link, you read "net current flow"--that is current flow in less current flow out. For example, you charging source may be putting in 10 amps, and the freezer is drawing 5 amps, you will read a net of 5 amps charging current.

The Vectron is a far better instrument, and what i recommend for most folks. However, I use an isolated battery/bank, for my refer/freezer.

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Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
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Aurelia



Joined: 21 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So the freezer cost us 10.5lbs and centralized our mass a bit better.

-we replaced the cockpit coolers with smaller models knowing we would save space on ice from now on.
-we used to carry 3 gallons of extra water in the under berth bow section but now only carry one.
-we are using 15 half liter waterbottles in the freezer to act as ice blocks which do double duty replacing two of the gallons carried in the bow.
-we also added some solar charging which added 8lbs but I consider that to be an optional addition depending on use patterns





Greg
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heck Greg,
Some of us just keep adding stuff to our boats and never take things out....

I never figured the weight--but with the two Dometic DF 50's, plus the extra battery, I think it is less than our largest ice chest, but then there is the generator and gas.... But who knows?
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jkidd



Joined: 23 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just picked up a National Luna Twin 60 for a Four Wheel Camper that is on order. I'm going to use this in the CD22 as well. 40 liter fridge and 20 liter freezer with dual readouts. This thing is built way nice and was way expensive. If I were going to buy 2 seperate units then it's a close call. The nice thing was the importer is in Salt Lake City so no freight. He has a warehouse full of them. It uses the Danfoss compressor and the average draw is 1.53 - 2.6 amp/hour. They make full use of the 3 speed compressor, has the turbo mode and you can set the battery cutoff. If anyone is anyone is interested I have a slightly used Engel with the cover for sale PM me. It might take a little of the sting away. One of the things that I liked about the Luna was it can be used as Fridge/Freezer, Fridge/Fridge, or Freezer/Freezer.
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Marco Flamingo



Joined: 09 Jul 2015
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At the complete opposite end of the spectrum is the Coleman Power Chill. I used ours at Lake Powell this year. I bought mine in 1999 and it has been around. I took it to the Australian outback once (as a piece of luggage filled with clothes) and it hasn't been pampered over the years. Cools enough to keep produce for 10 days. Extravagant items like fresh meat and cold beer aren't possible, but for under $100 and 17 years of service, I'm not complaining. My 50W solar panel just barely keeps up with it, so it draws about the same as the fancy freezer.

Mark
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jkidd



Joined: 23 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The best your going to do with thermoelectric is 40 degrees below ambient temperature so when it's 90 degrees at Lake Powell your going to get 50 not even close to the temps you need to store food. In refrigeration applications, thermoelectric junctions have about 1/4th the efficiency compared to conventional means (they offer around 10–15% efficiency of the ideal Cannot cycle refrigerator, compared with 40–60% achieved by conventional compression cycle systems (reverse Rankine systems using compression/expansion). Due to this lower efficiency, thermoelectric cooling is generally only used in environments where the solid state nature (no moving parts, low maintenance, compact size, and orientation insensitivity) outweighs pure efficiency.
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree wth Jay about the thermoelectric (Also known as Peltier–Seebeck effect.) coolers. Even with 3" insulation total seal foam,vapor barriers, I did not find it cooled enough to be a real source of refrigeration. Yes, it will keep vegies--but so will evaporative cooling--and be close to the same temps...The 40 degrees is the best it will do--and in reality usually closer to 20 (I did a lot of experimentation with these, since I thought it would be ideal for the 38 foot boat we built back in 1979. My primary cooling in this were Dole eutectic holding plates run by an engine driven compressor. The Peltier unit worked OK in temperate and cool temps. But in the tropic even to get the beer cold, we used the holding plates. Not a substitute for a compressor refrigeration unit.

Jay Wow! That is the real Ferrari of freezer/refers! Got the highest ratings of all of the units. Should be fantastic. You are going to love it!

I have not mentioned much about a similar unit, but the Kia of this type of unit. I bought the Whynter 62 Quart Dual Zone Portable Fridge, slightly used and with a small dent in the lower case--plain steel, and Chinese dual compressors. It also has two compartments: either of which can be a freezer or refrigerator. We used it for a month on the Mississippi. The question was comparison with the Dometic 50 quart unit we have been using--or rather with the two 50 quart units--would it be enough?. One thing we noticed, is that the compartment, stepped up (higher temp in the Dometic), was at the same temp as the rest of the compartment--and so it gave more really cold space. So far the dual zone unit has worked very well. The current draw was very close to that of the 50 quart unit. It's a keeper. We just don't know how long it will last. We also would keep it out of the salt spray, since I am sure the case will rust.

Will we give up the Dometic? No It works great in the car--and we still will carry it on long trips. But the 62 quart dual, was fine for a month! Our extra Dometic will go to our son.

Great score Jay!
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Marco Flamingo



Joined: 09 Jul 2015
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jkidd wrote:
thermoelectric cooling is generally only used in environments where the solid state nature (no moving parts, low maintenance, compact size, and orientation insensitivity) outweighs pure efficiency.


My application exactly. I do have to forego icecream bars for a week, but I can do that. Actually, they sell them at Dangling Rope if I were suffering from withdrawal.

I was tempted to go without refrigeration, but I really enjoyed a big salad every night. 40 degrees below ambient, even when we had 90 day temps, was enough to keep the produce in good shape. A wet towel on the cooler really helps.

Mark
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Sunbeam



Joined: 23 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jkidd wrote:
Just picked up a National Luna Twin 60 for a Four Wheel Camper that is on order.


Wow, nice combo! You are going to have a lot of fun with those Thumbs Up
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