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Setting my anchor troubles
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MOOSE



Joined: 07 Nov 2003
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City/Region: Rainy Lake - Int'l. Falls
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C-Dory Year: 2001
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: MOOSE
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is a good anchor and normally holds quite well. We have 20 feet of chain and I put out all the rode I can. The anchorage I describe, however, is a narrow cut between two islands and one can only put out so much of it to avoid swinging into shore. Having said that, in a lot of situations, given water depth and the amount of rode I can deploy, I'd be ok. But here the dense mat of weeds on the bottom has often confounded a firm anchor set, and especially a reset, if the wind shifts overnight.
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Kushtaka



Joined: 17 Dec 2013
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City/Region: Cordova
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 1993
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The grass on the bottom can be a major factor. I use some anchorages in the early season before the eelgrass gets thick that I could trust a short scope in a gale. That same anchorage will have me drifting in a slight breeze or current once the eelgrass is thick.

Some anchors hold better in grass than others, and heavier anchors tend to do much much better in thick vegetation as their ability to hold is completely dependent on their ability to get to the bottom. Your plow will actually do pretty well here, or at least mine does, compared to my danforth.

But, I prefer to use anchorages that aren't so grassy, or more correctly, I like to use anchorages whose bottoms have good holding characteristics. I do anchor up in compromised areas, but am generally ready to deal with the issues that arise when I do and understand that when I set.
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Larry Patrick



Joined: 03 Dec 2011
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City/Region: Dallas
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C-Dory Year: 2008
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Vessel Name: Sea -Jo
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Been having good results with our Manson Supreme in a lot of different anchorages 25 lbs 50ft of chain 300 ft of rode. Others are way more expierenced on this topic ,but we kept hearing good things about this anchor so we use it and so far like it.
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
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City/Region: Pensacola
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chester wrote:
There is a fella with an epic anchor test thread with videos over at Sailing Anarchy.
http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=169269&page=1

He has posted a compilation of his excellent videos that are very informative.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l59f-OjWoq0


Two take aways from reviewing these videos again:
1: Genuine anchors are far better than imitations.

2. The Bruce is not as reliable as some of the other anchors. I realize that some folks have had very good luck with the Bruce. (especially in the PNW) I only tested it once--with a 22# Genuine Bruce, (which came off a sailboat which had drug onto a beach off S. Mexico, and was a total loss) in coral sand--using # 50 ST Cockpit winches, trying to pull a 65,000 lb motor sailor off a dock with a beam wind of about 20 knots--and I winched the Bruce anchor home 3 times--never set, even with a scope of over 10:1. I put out a 12# genuine HT Danforth at 7:1 scope, and winched the boat right off the dock, with only a few feet of drag before the initial full set.

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Thataway
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journey on



Joined: 03 Mar 2005
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City/Region: Valley Centre
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anchoring is somewhere between a science and art. So is selecting an anchor. Here are my thoughts about the anchors I've had, not all on a C-Dory.

Plow anchors: Well, they're called plow for a reason, shaped like a plow. And they do in mud or sand. I've had a CQR plow in both, fortunately I caught it first both times. In rocks, seaweed or grass once set, they hold.

Manson anchors: The latest and in the right place they work. With the sharp point and thin cross-section, they penetrate. I use mine in kelp and some rocks. Should work well in grass. They drag in pure sand or mud.

Bruce claw anchor: My general anchor, unless there's kelp or grass; then I go to a Manson or Danforth. Holds well in sand or mud, when the boat swings it resets.

Danforth anchor: The best anchor for holding and it's cheap. Holds in sand and mud, penetrates kelp and grass and snags rocks. Developed during WWII and still around. Hard to stow and not "modern". Got one and use it.

Fortress anchor: Aluminum version of Danforth which is it's blessing and downfall. An anchor needs weight to sink and set. I have one and it floated down and didn't set. Available to good home. Has mud paws to better set in mud by giving the flukes a bigger angle with the stock.

And now on to SCOPE. First, I have 50' of chain and 150' of rope. I never let out more then 60' of rode UNLESS the anchor refuses to set. Then I'll let out another 50' or so and try again. Anchor with 3-1 scope as a general rule which means I have to bring in some rode once its set. I used 5-1 scope once up in the North Channel during 35 mph winds, did a good job of holding.

The 3 things I look for in setting an anchor is 1) the water depth for 3-1 scope, 2) the type of bottom for the anchor type and 3) any junk on the bottom. I use enough chain and rope to give a good angle to setting the anchor (may be more than 3-1 but not often.) Oh, and I make Judy happy with the set.

As for anchor tests, they always seem to test them in sand. My feeling is that any anchor will hold in sand, try them in real anchorages with the wind blowing and the waves breaking. Try them in different bottoms: grass, kelp, mud and rock. Then tell me which is best.

Boris
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Minnow



Joined: 03 Dec 2003
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City/Region: East Amwell
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going to go with bad technique for the anchoring problems.

The original post said he let the anchor go to the bottom, then added 20' on top of it before backing down. (At least that's how I read it)

That seems to be a pretty reliable way of fouling the anchor, regardless of the type.

I much prefer to be in reverse while deploying, and pay out line till it sets, then add more depending on conditions.
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that technique is very important. I will drop the anchor straight down--the depth sounder gives us a good idea of how deep, and the anchor rode is marked every 50 feet, so we have a good approximation. Then I give the boat a slight kick in and out of reverse to give sternway--not keeping the boat in reverse. I will allow the 7:1 scope, Secure the rode, and then give another kick in reverse. Wait, see if the anchor has begun to set. Then gradually apply reverse power. Anchoring is a gentle art. Many times in storms, I have set two anchors of different types in a 'V". Initially -lets say- that the fisherman initially sets in grass (probably the best anchor for grass)--I may find hours later that the fisherman has slowly drug, and that the plow type has set in better and is really holding the boat.

On the C Dory one does not have the option of a number of anchors; But a primary bower and at least one Fortress anchors for stern or mud--we carry 3 Fortress, 2 broken down, and one ready to go, under the dinette seat floor.
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South of Heaven



Joined: 15 Aug 2015
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Minnow wrote:
I'm going to go with bad technique for the anchoring problems.

The original post said he let the anchor go to the bottom, then added 20' on top of it before backing down. (At least that's how I read it)

That seems to be a pretty reliable way of fouling the anchor, regardless of the type.

I much prefer to be in reverse while deploying, and pay out line till it sets, then add more depending on conditions.


Oh, definitely. I won't argue for my technique. I'm a new boater and do a lot of solo boating; I'm constantly learning all these different aspects of boat handling on the fly and never had anyone to teach me (except for you Brats and my Chapman book!)

This winter I'm gonna take the USCG auxiliary boaters course especially since in 2017 I'm planning several long distance, multi day trips.

Having said all that, I'm still gonna upgrade to a heavier anchor and probably a different style too. At least I'll have a nice 16.5lb'er for a spare... Lol

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Kushtaka



Joined: 17 Dec 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fortress anchors are best deployed with plenty of heavy chain, in my experience.

I understand that some have had mixed results with plow anchors, and I agree they are not the most likely to hold in all bottom types, however the plow in and of itself does not skip lightly across the surface. Anyone who has ever run a plow behind a horse will tell you that the plow wants to dig and and stop very very badly. It's the operator that keeps the angle of the plow just right so it doesn't "SET" and instead "SKIMS" as it's pulled by the horse. They are not inherently flawed because they are a plow and plows skim.

This operation is achieved by controlling the point of the plow and keeping it directed upward slightly, enough to move the earth but not enough to set. Again, like the fortress, the opposite (the plow SETTING) is accomplished with a plow type anchor by having plenty of scope out, and having plenty of chain. So if the chain sets on the bottom at a nice acute angle and the portion of the chain attached to your anchor never lifts off the bottom, your plow will never lift upward, and should hold reliably. If when there is sufficient current, insufficient chain, or insufficient scope, such that the chain is being pulled upward at the anchor it will certainly drag. If it stays down, it should hold.

When I fish I will often, if not always fish with barely more scope out than the dept. Usually 1.5:1 in somewhere between 100 and 200' of water. We have some big currents here, and I usually hold just fine. I would not trust this setup, or use it in a situation where I had to hold fast, or wasn't able to pay attention and correct drag, but your anchor can and will hold even if your rode is vertical (ask anyone who has gotten an anchor stuck!).

I'm only going into it like this because there was some advice that 3:1 is fine, and it can be, but it all depends on conditions, bottom, etc. I've held for hours with less than 3:1, even swung around on tide turns no problem, but I've also dragged. If I were learning to anchor I'd start with plenty of rode and then see what I could get away with in terms of shortening it.
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bridma



Joined: 13 Sep 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have owned, older plough, claw, danforth, they are pretty much old school. I will probably get some flack from happy owners of that type of anchor. But for me in the PNW a spade is my trusted anchor of choice, Manson Supreme in my case. My anchoring method is the same as George on Kerri-On. Back up or go forward very slowly so that the chain does not pile up on top of the anchor. Then I put the engines in neutral and the MS sets it self. I have never backed up on it to dig it in. Minimum scope I use is 3 to 1. I do sleep well at night with my spade dug in.

Martin.
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bridma



Joined: 13 Sep 2011
Posts: 1155
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

South of Heaven wrote:
Whattya guys think about this?? Seems like a good deal.

https://boston.craigslist.org/nos/bpo/5759103239.html



I had a 33lb CQR on one of my sail boats (real one, not a knock-off), did not like it so sold it to a friend for $50. Real cheap, but then, he is a good friend.
If I was spending big bucks on an anchor today, I would look at newer technology.
Just my thoughts.

Martin.
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hardee



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I was at a dock this past summer, one of my activities was to "scope out" what anchors were riding on the bows. Frequently finding the Rocna or Manson Supreme. When I had a chance I would ask the owners, and quit often the new spades were replacing the Delta or CQR and most often, the CQR's were on the sailboats.

Harvey
SleepyC Moon


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