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Handling in Great Lakes chop

 
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Greatlakesboater



Joined: 26 Aug 2013
Posts: 9
City/Region: Great Lakes
State or Province: WI
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Encore
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 7:36 pm    Post subject: Handling in Great Lakes chop Reply with quote

Here on Lake Superior the waves are wind driven, that is short and sharp. My 22ft C-Dory handles it well but I would welcome input from more experienced members on the best way to trim the boat in beam seas to minimize the roll. Even in waves of "two feet or less" the roll is quite pronounced even with the flat bottom. It's a small boat so maybe it's inevitable but is it ?
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ssobol



Joined: 27 Oct 2012
Posts: 3358
City/Region: SW Michigan
State or Province: MI
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: SoBELLE
Photos: SoBelle
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IME the boat can be quite tippy in beam waves or wakes. The only solution I have found is to head a much as practical into the waves. This may require "tacking" of your course.

I think this is more due to the size and weight of the boat more than due to having a flat bottom. I'm not sure that the same weight deep-V would do much better in a beam sea. The C-Dory has a higher CG than a similar size deep-V so that contributes some to the rolling too.
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20778
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At low speeds the deep V would roll more than the C Dory. At displacement speeds, the deep V would roll more.

At planing speeds, both boats would be more stable--but the C Dory will plane at a slower speed.

I have to assume that you are referring to slow speeds or a drift? Certainly the best way to handle this, is a change of direction, and change of speed, The speed may vary depending on the conditions. But the C Dory and the best options becomes of the ranges of speed.

Into the chop, the Deep V will ride better by far. But there is a pay off.

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Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL
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AstoriaDave



Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 994
City/Region: Astoria
State or Province: OR
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greatlakesboater,

There is more to it than hull shape and speed. The location of the CG being the most important. Many inboards have lower CG's with the engine weight more centered than vessels of the OB or IO persuasion. A good resource gor pursuing questions like this, and very well done is Dave Gerr's The Nature of Boats: http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1020087.The_Nature_of_Boats

A fun, easy read.

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Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR
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T.R. Bauer



Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 1726
City/Region: Wasilla
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 1993
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Whisperer
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never notice my CD 22 being "tippy" really ever. But it is always loaded to the gills with gear and fish. I think they handle great in beam seas.
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Chris Bulovsky



Joined: 11 Mar 2004
Posts: 358
City/Region: Washburn
State or Province: WI
C-Dory Year: 1998
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: SCOUT
Photos: SCOUT
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two feet or less sounds like no trouble but its unpleasant in most any boat. I have found to just throttle back to about 9-12 mph in that stuff.

Also on occasion I will have a fair amount of bow weight and that actually makes the boat handle a bit better in the chop.

Just some thoughts

Chris
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Larry Patrick



Joined: 03 Dec 2011
Posts: 605
City/Region: Dallas
State or Province: PA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: Sea -Jo
PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I learned my lesson last season trying to make it to a lock 30 miles up the lake. After a pounding, fan falling from ceiling ect. I never rush anymore. As others have remarked slowing down for conditions is better then beating up your boat. I also notice the sideways roll if allowing bigger waves to hit you on side. So we try to quarter them or whatever works to get where were going without continuing to be hit by beam waves. On Saturday at Lake Erie we had big rollers no breaking of waves,at first wife was liking the ride ,but after hours she felt quesy watching poles or driving,so we anchored up at an island went for a swim. On Sunday small craft advisory,so we sat on beach ,watching surf sailing guys flying on their rigs. Rip current advisory also so no swimming. Six to 8ft waves white capping,you wonder what it would be like out there,guess im not going to find out,unless someday getting caught in bad weather.
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colbysmith



Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Posts: 4522
City/Region: Madison
State or Province: WI
C-Dory Year: 2009
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Traveler
Photos: C-Traveler and Midnight-Flyer
PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You don't want to find out Larry. I got caught in some rough stuff while cruising in the North Channel last year. At first I was estimating 4 to 5 footers. But after rehashing everything, and being with some others with sailing experience calling some much lesser stuff 3 to 4 footers, I'm pretty sure I was in that 6-8 foot category, with a short sequence. (Most times couldn't see past the wave ahead of us. Taking green water over the bow at 3 kts as we crested one wave just to dig into another...) We couldn't go any slower and still make way! Winds were sustained 30 kts with higher gusts. The boat held up pretty well. Can't say the same for it's occupants! Mr. Green Colby
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T.R. Bauer



Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 1726
City/Region: Wasilla
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 1993
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Whisperer
PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good Times! It's happened to me too.....I've kissed the dock before in Seward!
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Larry Patrick



Joined: 03 Dec 2011
Posts: 605
City/Region: Dallas
State or Province: PA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: Sea -Jo
PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Colby sounds like a white knuckle trip,I always try to watch for everything when wife is aboard. Last trip everyday was calling for afternoon thunderstorms,kept an eye on radar on I-Pad for weather. Seemed like if you wanted a perfect day ,you weren't going out. We stayed within miles of running back to sheltered marina. They seemed to just hit on land those xs. Missed all the storms,but didn't go out ten miles ,wanted to fish and get back if needed quick. Made some new friends at campground,from Kentucky ,and others near Pittsburg. Guy named Jeff says he loves the C-Dorys and plans on getting one. So I showed him the boat. Sounds like he will be a future owner. He and my wife lost there jobs after 30yrs,both went back to college for medical coding,so she was picking his brain since he has been working for 5 yrs now at it he ,works from home now. She is enjoying the season after graduating, in fall she will be trying to find employment then after 2yrs in office,she can work on the road from internet. Looking forward to camping and boating more then.
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colbysmith



Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Posts: 4522
City/Region: Madison
State or Province: WI
C-Dory Year: 2009
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Traveler
Photos: C-Traveler and Midnight-Flyer
PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doesn't get much better than camping and boating! I've seen a few times in both situations where I would have felt a whole lot better snug in my house (or basement.) Didn't plan for it to be that way, but just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Guess it goes with the territory if you spend enough time in it. Neutral Colby
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Kushtaka



Joined: 17 Dec 2013
Posts: 648
City/Region: Cordova
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 1993
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: Kushtaka
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 3:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I grew up boating in Lake Erie and now boat in Prince William Sound, so I do sympathize with your wind chop issues.

The CD is very narrow on the bottom and flares out substantially amidships. This may be the source of some initial instability, or tendency to roll, but I can assure you that the boat does not go over easily. Today I was out with my nephew and it was just a tiny bit rough. He wanted to "feel it." Boat turned abeam and we rocked back and forth, but he was disappointed. "I thought it would be more."

When running on step, you can do a lot to smooth things out by adjusting your speed, and course, taking the waves at a quarter, or more. If dealing with chop and not swells, trim your bow down with trim tabs and engine trim, with chop/waves astern, trim bow up.

Honestly, if a priority is running quickly and smoothly in any direction through persistent chop, there are better boats, but you will inevitably pay for it at the fuel dock.
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