Anchor Rehash -- New Anchor – Vulcan

[Hunkydory]

We're very pleased with our 25# Boss following last summers SE Alaska cruise. One of the reasons I switched from a 22# Claw was having it refuse to set at all in soft mud & many other times difficult to set other then in a harder mud & shell mix. When back in Gut bay, Baranof Island where the claw refused to set in the soft mud, the Boss set immediately & We couldn't budge it with full power reverse. The only non immediate set was when trying to anchor where I should not have even tried & that was in big leaf kelp, covering a very hard bottom. It would pierce a couple of leafs then just scoop up a massive ball of kelp, which wasn't fun getting back off, but happy to be using a windlass to bring the mess up instead of by hand like such was done on all our previous SE Alaska cruises.

The Manson Boss & Supreme both launch off the roller without hands on assistance. It isn't a concern with me due to having stainless protection on the bow, but I can see where the big Boss could possibly ding the gel coat on a rare occasion when retrieved, but our previous Claw caused dings & was the reason I had already added the protection long before the purchase of either the Manson Surpreme or Boss.

I'm one of those that are bugged by the Manson Supreme or Rocna bar causing view obstruction & prefer the way the Boss looks on the roller.

I too have used the Dansforth, but more because it makes such a good light weight spare & feel for all the reasons many have stated, they are a well proven good anchor, but feel these latest additions are a better choice for the main, where we have done most of our anchoring in SE Alaska.

Jay

[Marco Flamingo]

Ahhh, physics. What, no prejudice and hype? Okay.

One of the things that isn't discussed when it comes to anchors is the density of the anchor material. It's basically a choice between steel and aluminum, with aluminum (Fortress/Guardian) being popular because of the weight savings. But the weights are given when the anchor is weighed in air. They weigh different when in water. Picture a 10# steel anchor. Now picture a 10# Styrofoam anchor. They will obviously behave differently once in the water even though they "weigh the same."

The same is true to a lesser degree with the density difference between steel and aluminum. In rough numbers, a 10# steel anchor will weigh 8.5# in the water. A 10# aluminum anchor will weigh 6.5# in the water. A 10# Styrofoam anchor will have about 250# of buoyancy, so you could float on it. It's going to be hard to set. The Fortress style anchors are also sometimes claimed to be difficult to set because they are light and you can see that the weight "savings" is magnified underwater. An aluminum anchor might require special considerations.

The Anchor Buddy kellet is interesting. It's aluminum and weighs 30# when weighed in the air. The video says that it is "one size fits all" for vessels 65 foot "plus". Right away that makes me put on my skeptical spectacles. 68 foot? 78 foot? 178 foot? All anchor claims are guesstimates, but that one doesn't "set" well with me. I'm sure it would be fine for my CD 16, but I've got other plans.

The other claim that is a little odd is the statement that it takes 147# of force to lift it off of the bottom. No, it might take 147# when in the air depending on the leverage, i.e., depending on where it is placed on the rode. We know that it only weighs approximately 19# when underwater and that the closer to the anchor it lies the more force would be required to lift it off of the bottom. Claiming 147# (not 146.5?) also makes me skeptical.

Not that it doesn't have some benefit or that lifting a kellet off of the bottom is bad. What the kellet does is hopefully keep the angle of the rode shallow enough so that the anchor can dig in and stay in. On the West Coast, kellets are often called "Alaskan sleeping pills." Most of us know them as downrigger weights or cannon balls, although the Alaskan trollers use fairly large lead weights (20 and 30#). A 30# lead sleeping pill will weigh 28.5# under water. Since the fishermen already have them on board, they send a few down when it's nap time.

I was hoping to find a boat show special for the aluminum Guardian anchor (a Fortress anchor without the finish work). Light weight will have benefits on a CD 16 and I will try to work around it's shortcomings. From what I have seen, 5 minutes with an angle grinder would basically produce a functional Fortress (minus the ability to change the fluke angle, a feature that nobody has ever used). Since I intend to have a cannon ball or two on board, they could be sent down when needed to turn a 4# aluminum anchor into a 10-20# anchor. At least that's the theory.

Mark

[Aurelia]

Manson supreme info:

http://www.petersmith.net.nz/boat-anchors/manson-supreme-anchor.php

Greg

[hardee]

[gulfcoast john]

Unlike Conrad, my favorite bow jewelry is the genuine Lewmar Claw 11kg in polished stainless steel. It's gorgeous, which is of course one of the primary functions of a main anchor. A 25# Manson Supreme for the Keys, which looks like something evil you would use to impale a giant Zombie, and it's harder to step over one when boarding from the trailer ladder (the Supreme, not the giant Zombie). They come in satin stainless steel (the Supreme, not the....) but I can't justify the $1600 price. Yet. 120 ft G3 Hi Test genuine ACCO chain + 1/2" line. Rear 14# genuine Lewmar plough and 15 ft 3/8 stainless steel chain (pretty) + 1/2" line. All that has kept us secure and confident at sandy warm beaches in as much as 12 inch deep water and sustained winds to 7 knots with gusts to 15, or maybe a little more. The boat seems to take it all in stride.
We might be outliers here.
Cheers!
John

[thataway]

The only company which I know of which did videos of setting and dragging, was Super Max (There have been some others in sand and out of the water). SuperMax is now being made again, and it has a reputation among cruising boats as one of the best anchors, in mud, as well as sand and rocks. They are awkward to store (what's new, with 3rd generation anchors). They now make one C Dory size.

http://maxmarineproducts.com/supermax-anchors/

As for diving--I have done a lot of diving on anchors, from just setting to holding in up to 80 knots, where the all chain rode is bar tight.

Kellets: Most cruising boats do not use them. As above when it really starts blowing the chain becomes bar tight, no matter what weight you put on the chain, or chain rode interface. The hassle of having to shackle on in place--especially if you have to move in the middle of the night, because of changing wind directions etc, can be down right difficult, if not dangerous. I tried and found it made no difference. (We did carry a 35# pig with an 5/16" eye bolt I molded in). The general consensus is it is better to have an anchor which weighs 30# more, which more fluke area, than the hunk of lead. An anchor does not hold by its weight--it holds by the action of the flukes. Even in digging in, the weight has little value in modern anchors--such as the Fortress, or the 10# Boss I am currently using.

Peter Smith and Ronca vs Manson. Peter bad mouthed Manson. There were tests done, and Manson showed that their anchors were as strong, if not stronger than Ronca. In practical tests they both seem to work equally, as well as in strain gauge tests. There was a bad bunch of Roncas, when first being made in China. I believe that is well in the past now. No reason for "Anchor Wars". They are both good anchors. One copies the other?

The Guardian Vs Fortress: Same high tensile strength alloy, the edges of the fluke are sharper, the finish is better because of anodizing. The second hole, with 45 degree fluke angle was tested well in the year or so ago Fortress test, and is definitely superior in the less cohesive mud.

One always have to remember that comparative anchor testing is difficult because of so many variants in the sea bed. Testers try and fine uniform areas, but that is difficult, and once an anchor has plowed thru the bed, it is not the same, for the next anchor. Most of us have had the experience of anchoring one place in a cove, and the anchor not holding--but moving a few feet and it works beautifully.

Anchoring is an art. There is no one perfect anchor. When we cruised we always had 3 anchors on the ready at the bow. One Fisherman, one plow, one Danforth.
Today, I would have one Ronca/Manson Supreme/Boss??? , one Fortress, and one Fisherman on the bow. Just because we have 3rd generation anchors, there still is no one perfect anchor. You have to know the sea bed, and what the anchor will do. For me, the 3 Guardian/Fortress, total weight maybe 12 to 14#, broken down under the dinette floor, plus one Boss, or Manson on the bow, seems good enough for anything I meet in our cruising. But, If I was going to the Bahamas, or some areas where there are extensive sea grasses, I would have a fisherman (or perhaps the SS Northie, Sea Plane Anchor , I just sold... in the kit....

[hardee]

John said:
"All that has kept us secure and confident at sandy warm beaches in as much as 12 inch deep water and sustained winds to 7 knots with gusts to 15, or maybe a little more. The boat seems to take it all in stride."

Someday I hope to be able to experience those kind of conditions. For now, a night like that would be considered "Almost" mirror flat That 12 inches of water is probably warm and clear too, right? Please, enjoy some of that for me.

AS to pretty anchors, I like the Ultra, as fine a high polish stainless as you can find, but I can find a lot of other places to put that boat unit, and I might hesitate for a second too long before cutting that one loose.

Bob, Thanks for the word on the Super Max. That's an interesting looking anchor for sure. Generous sizes.

Harvey
SleepyC

[Chester]

[hardee]

[thataway]

Good find, and Harvey makes a good point about the anchor landing fight side up--but they all roll and set no matter how they land. (Even the hoop-less boss.

There are no strain gauge data (since this is an amateur film). So we don't have any idea how much 3000 RPM in reverse on a small Sailboat engine, equates to the 5,000 lb bollard pull on the tug or RV vessel.

I came away with an affirmation of the Bruce/Claw as not being a good holder in some conditions (sand where all of the others seemed to be almost equal). I had a similar experience when I winched a 10 Kilo Bruce back to the boat (was going to use it for a spring in coral sand). Tried different places in the harbor, huge scope, little scope--did not work. But one place only..Danforths were working very well.

[hardee]

[hardee]

[Hunkydory]

Harvey, as I remember it, the boss was the latest thing in anchors when I purchased it, but though I don't remember the Rocna Vulcan could have been out then too. I'm very satisfied with my 25# Boss, though I believe it to be way overkill for most on a CD22 & with the Boss's huge fluke area a 15# the just right size. I haven't read enough about the Vulcan to have an opinion on which would be better between it & the Boss.

Jay

[hardee]

Thanks Jay,

I'm not convinced there is a huge functional difference between the Boss and the Vulcan. I like the idea of oversizing (except when I am at McDonald's

I have 70 feet of chain, so probably won't go the double oversize, and I do have a concern about adding that much more weight plus the already on board chain.

Harvey
SleepyC

[hardee]

I am looking pretty closely at the Rocna Vulcan 9 and wondering if anyone is using that on specifically and how it is working with the bow roller/launcher? Also, any bumps in the gel coat from that combo?

Harvey
SleepyC