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Kushtaka
Joined: 17 Dec 2013
Posts: 648
City/Region: Cordova
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 1993
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: Kushtaka
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 Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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| thataway wrote: | | Quote: | | I am not 100% certain, but I believe that Dickson came out of a split between Sig and Fab-All some time ago. |
Dickinson has been making boat heaters since 1932. Could have been born out a split before then? I remember a couple of boats I sailed on in the late 1940's which had Dickinson heaters. |
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I really don't know and I'm curious. It seems there was once a relationship between Sig and Fab-All, as well as Sig and Dickson. I believe that they all sell and identical stove with an identical model number is likely a red herring and has nothing to do with any history, but if anyone has any info I'd be interested to learn about it. The interwebs are a bit contradictory. |
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20dauntless
Joined: 23 Jan 2008
Posts: 879
City/Region: Mercer Island and Decatur Island
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Retriever and Nordic Tug 37
Photos: Retriever
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| Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:08 pm Post subject: Re: One man's opinion... |
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| Rain wrote: | Below is a quote from an avid fisherman who prefer's a propane heater:
"My experience with diesel furnace type heaters is that they are noisy, power hungry, very expensive and fussy with too many moving parts."
Have times changed? Maybe he hasn't tried one recently...? |
That's pretty much my experience, BUT the benefits are worth the cost and frustration.
Forced air furnaces are awesome. Nearly instant heat. With proper installation, there are not cold spots in the boat. And a forced air furnace can be plumbed to bring in fresh air, drying out the cabin in the process.
I have a Wallas cooktop in the C-Dory and don't like it. Maintenance intensive, expensive, and lots of cold spots. The Espar in the Nordic Tug is power hungry, expensive, and had a few problems when I bought the boat, but it hasn't required any maintenance for the last 18 months or so, although it's due for a cleaning.
Congrats on the boat, by the way!
_________________
My boating blog...http://samlandsman.blogspot.com/ |
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Rain
Joined: 09 Oct 2015
Posts: 218
City/Region: Oak Harbor
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: C-Glory
Photos: C-Glory
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| Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:41 pm Post subject: Thanks Sam! |
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It is all your fault I am buying a boat. It was that nice ride you and "Retriever" took Gloria and me on! 
Planning to pick it up next Tuesday. The weather is not conducive to trailing this week, plus Gloria has me otherwise engaged!
If you had a 22' or 23' C-Dory with a stove burner but no heater, what would you put in it for a heater? |
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20dauntless
Joined: 23 Jan 2008
Posts: 879
City/Region: Mercer Island and Decatur Island
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Retriever and Nordic Tug 37
Photos: Retriever
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| Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 6:50 pm Post subject: Re: Thanks Sam! |
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| Rain wrote: | It is all your fault I am buying a boat. It was that nice ride you and "Retriever" took Gloria and me on!
Planning to pick it up next Tuesday. The weather is not conducive to trailing this week, plus Gloria has me otherwise engaged!
If you had a 22' or 23' C-Dory with a stove burner but no heater, what would you put in it for a heater? |
Espar, Webasto, or Wallas, in no particular order. The smallest forced air model from any of these companies should provide more than enough heat.
The internet is full of horror stories about each of these brands. Scan Marine is the only game in town for Wallas. They're helpful but if something breaks they're your only source of parts and service. Espar and Webasto are used in trucks and RVs too, so they're easier to get parts for in my experience. Sure Marine in Seattle is the Webasto dealer and they're outstanding.
In the past Wallas has claimed to be more energy efficient, but I don't know if that's still the case.
You can save a lot of money by buying a truck version of an Espar or Webasto and sourcing the marine specific hardware yourself. |
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san juanderer
Joined: 12 Aug 2014
Posts: 235
City/Region: Stanwood
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1990
C-Dory Model: 22 Angler
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:32 pm Post subject: boat heater choice |
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I put a D30 ( Wallas) in a prior boat I had, it was finicky with fuel source ( carbon build up), sometimes would not fire up, and you had only one choice for parts or service ( no options ).
Six months ago I installed a Webasto EVO 40, runs on diesel, has been working great, cost $1400 dollars (truck version), the internet is full of choices for parts, and is 15k btu vs 10.5k btu. No cold spots, and unlike the Wallas it is not marginal to heating a 25 foot boat.
Personally, I would not buy a Wallas. The Webasto is a far better heater.
alan
_________________
Cdory 22 Angler
SeaSport 24XL, Etec 250 hp (sold)
Rosborough RF246 (sold)
Commander 30 Sportfish (sold)
Olympic 26 XL (sold)
Glassply 19 (sold)
Olympic 23 (sold)
Bayliner 38 Motoryacht (sold)
Olympic 20 (sold)
Fiberform 16 (sold)
Olympic 18 (sold) |
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Sunbeam
Joined: 23 Feb 2012
Posts: 3990
City/Region: Out 'n' About
State or Province: Other
C-Dory Year: 2002
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: Sunbeam
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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San Juanderer,
How is the sound level between the Wallas and the Webasto model you have? My one complaint about the Webasto "type" (although I don't know which model) is how loud the exhaust is when I'm in an anchorage with a boat running one. I don't want to subject others to that coming from my boat (and of course I want a quiet heater in my own boat as well).
I haven't researched the "others" (Webasto, Espar, etc.) lately, so don't know what might have changed. I don't know anything about the EVO model from Webasto. Always happy to learn though.
Thanks,
Sunbeam |
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Will-C
Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 2476
City/Region: Temple
State or Province: PA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: Will-C
Photos: Will-C
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 8:31 am Post subject: Which heater? |
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We put in a Espar D-2 heater a few years ago. There is a sub album in our boats photo album if that's of any interest to you. We bought the truck version and purchased the marine items to complete the project. If I remember correctly the Espar has a rubber mounted fuel pump which cut down on the fuel pump noise. We never slept with the heater running. So we never saw the power hungry part be an issue. Our berth was insulated and we had the comforter combination to keep us toasty. The heater was noisy like a miniature jet engine. They do make mufflers for them but in a small boat application the room to install it can be come an issue. Plus the muffler basically just changes the tone they are still noisy because the way they are designed to work. The plus side is they do heat up pretty quickly and we would get everything warmed up while the coffee was brewing then get dressed accordingly for the days weather. I would buy one again. We just used the standard controller not the thermostat type. For that reason we just ran ours on high got everything toasty and then normally would shut it off. We did occasionally leave it run while we cruised if the weather warranted it. Because of some of the horror stories that some folks had we steered clear of anything with a name that started with Wa. JMHO here
D.D.
_________________
Chevrolet The Heart Beat Of America |
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san juanderer
Joined: 12 Aug 2014
Posts: 235
City/Region: Stanwood
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1990
C-Dory Model: 22 Angler
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 9:39 am Post subject: boat heater |
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The 40 EVO replaces the Air Top 3500. On start up the fan sequence does have a robust blowing noise, must have something to do with the Webasto starting method. But unlike the Wallas, it has never miss fired. Once up to running temp, the controller can be dialed down and the air noise is barely perceptable.
To me, I like to have choices. Just google Wallas, nothing comes up regarding replacement parts, and purchase price options.
alan |
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Discovery
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 1240
City/Region: LOA, UTAH
State or Province: UT
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Discovery
Photos: Discovery
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Sunbeam
Joined: 23 Feb 2012
Posts: 3990
City/Region: Out 'n' About
State or Province: Other
C-Dory Year: 2002
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: Sunbeam
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the additional input on the sound level.
San Juanderer: I knew the Wallas combination stove/heaters could be tempermental, but I had never heard anything similar about their "pure" heaters, so I was thinking they were pretty robust. Maybe I should do a bit more research.
Although I like choice, I'm okay with only having Scan as a source, IF the Wallas heater is quiet and robust. Otherwise... no. |
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Rain
Joined: 09 Oct 2015
Posts: 218
City/Region: Oak Harbor
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: C-Glory
Photos: C-Glory
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 6:37 pm Post subject: Thanks for all the input. |
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| I am going with a Wallas 1300. Hope it displays all the positives mentioned here and none of the negatives. |
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hardee
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 12633
City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 7:53 pm Post subject: Re: Thanks for all the input. |
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| Rain wrote: | | I am going with a Wallas 1300. Hope it displays all the positives mentioned here and none of the negatives. |
I think that is a good choice and should fit well in the 23. I have thought about going that route if the Wallas 95 goes belly up.
Harvey
SleepyC 
_________________
Though in our sleep we are not conscious of our activity or surroundings, we should not, in our wakefulness, be unconscious of our sleep. |
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NORO LIM
Joined: 24 Apr 2008
Posts: 881
City/Region: Olympia
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: NORO LIM (sold 12/12/14)
Photos: NORO LIM
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 8:42 pm Post subject: Re: Thanks for all the input. |
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| Rain wrote: | | I am going with a Wallas 1300. Hope it displays all the positives mentioned here and none of the negatives. |
I put one of those in my 2006 CC Venture 23. We loved it. We spent a month on the boat in S.E. Alaska shortly after I installed it. The heater was a definite hit with the First Mate. In the morning, I could reach the heater switch while I was still under the covers in the V-berth. By the time I got up, turned the (Wallas ) stove on, and made coffee, the cabin was toasty. It was in the 40's and wet much of that trip, but the boat stayed dry and as warm as we wanted it inside. Previous Inside Passage trips under similar weather conditions but pre-heater, had produced a lot more moisture in the cabin and V-berth. The 1300 is very quiet and we often left it on all day. The combination of the stove at mid height on the starboard side of the cabin and the heater down lower on the port side made it possible to really warm the cabin even on very cold winter cruises.
I know Wallas is not everyone's cup of tea, but 8+ years of very heavy, and completely trouble-free use of the Wallas kerosene stove made the choice of the 1300 pretty easy for me. I think the Wallas products are great. I did pay attention to how I turned them on and off, to fuel condition, and to voltage (especially at start), and as I say, I had zero problems. Nada. Zip.
BTW, the guys at SCAN Marine were incredibly patient and helpful as I agonized over my installation. I put the heater behind the table, against the port side. I picked that location in part for reasons that may be largely unique to my boat, i.e., the under-counter space on the starboard side was already pretty crowded with electronics and controls mostly related to my twin engine and twin helm set-up. Also, as noted above, having the heater and the stove on opposite sides has its advantages. There's a sub-album on the 1300 installation in my photo album.
I think you made a great choice. Best of luck.
_________________
Bill, Formerly on NORO LIM
2001 CD 16, 2001-2006
2006 CC 23, 2006-2014 |
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bshillam
Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 783
City/Region: Bellingham
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1981
Vessel Name: Heaven To Me
Photos: My Heaven
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 1:09 pm Post subject: Wallas DT |
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So the other day I was down at the boat working on putting some memory foam into the v-birth and a neighbor says hello. Long story short - he has a DT 40 in his boat. I was really surprised as to how quite not only the heater but most importantly the exhaust was. I was standing not two feet from the boat and couldn't hear the exhaust. Now our marina backs to a busy street but still being only two feet away and not hearing it was a shock. Makes moving forward and installing the DT-30 a real solid choice for me. Other than a minor electrical issue he is having he said he would install the unit again if met with the same choice.
Sometime in December I'll be getting mine installed and will report back. |
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Rain
Joined: 09 Oct 2015
Posts: 218
City/Region: Oak Harbor
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: C-Glory
Photos: C-Glory
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 8:48 pm Post subject: Change of Plans |
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| After examining the boat, which I picked up yesterday, and looking for the optimal space to install a Wallas 1300, I have decided to go with the Wallas stove/heater combination. The Kenyon Kiss Cook Top isn't worth much, but I managed to get $150 trade in for it. I have also heard that it is hard to find butane for them. This decision only adds $150 to what I would have spent adding the Wallas 1300, saves considerable space, and eliminates the need for finding and carrying butane. I don't care much about how the Wallas cooks, but hope it will keep the cabin warm! Thanks for all the input. |
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