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Wallas Nordic DT vs. 95
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colbysmith



Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Posts: 4523
City/Region: Madison
State or Province: WI
C-Dory Year: 2009
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Traveler
Photos: C-Traveler and Midnight-Flyer
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, well now I'm completely confused in what I want. Rolling Eyes After reading up more on the wallas stoves, I'm not sure I would really want it. See it takes about 10 minutes to get started. (With my butane stove, I just turn it on and it's ready to use.) But that still leaves me with wanting a heater. Took a bit more reading to realize that the Wallas 1300 is just off and on. Ie, no thermostat. I'm not sure that would be ideal either. (I'd like to be able to set a comfortable sleeping temperature, and not have to keep waking up to turn the heater back on or off...)

Anyway, some more questions if anyone can answer:

- Regarding the 1300, Is there any kind of thermostat switch that could fit in line with the on/off switch to automatically switch the unit on and off?
- How well does this unit heat? Ie, if it's freezing outside, how warm will it keep the boat? (22 ft Cruiser, just cabin and berth.)
- The Nordic DT advertises that it also helps keep the cabin dry, by exhausting the air overboard. Since I assume that means fresh air is coming in from the outside, and that air off the lake is going to be humid, I question just how much drier the cabin air will be? (I understand propane will actually place more moisture in the air, but I'm curious if those that have the Wallis units notice a dryer cabin with their use?


Any recommendations of other heaters out there? Thanks Colby
Colby
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johnf



Joined: 12 Jan 2005
Posts: 339
City/Region: Tigard, OR
State or Province: OR
Photos: Boat Name TBD II (johnf)
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Colby...we have the Nordic DT and I'm proud to say I installed it myself.

Took way more hours than average bear but I made it through...had to jigsaw the whole larger after removing the one burner butane stove.

It does something similar to a thermostat...once you put it in this mode you and set the dial at 12 noon and that is about 68 degrees they say....if you open the door it will increase fuel and fan speed...then once you close the door and it catches up in heating the space and reduces fuel/fan.

Haven't really used that function but once or twice and can't report on effectiveness. This summer ran it at 1 (out of 6) and that was plenty of heat and we had the v-berth hatch open but it wasn't super cold.

I think for very cold weather it will only do OK and would suggest a ducted heater instead (I'm originally from Montana so I think it is fair to say I know cold).

For a two burner stove and heater combination I personally really like it!

Good luck with your decision!

John
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Sunbeam



Joined: 23 Feb 2012
Posts: 3990
City/Region: Out 'n' About
State or Province: Other
C-Dory Year: 2002
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: Sunbeam
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 1:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Colby,

I hear a lot of my same thoughts echoed in your last post. My boat came with the Wallas 95 - the classic two-burner heater/stove. Many love this, but I knew it would not be my style. I wanted a stove I could just fire right up, and a heater that was just a heater. Wouldn't hurt if one or more of them was simpler, either.

I have gone with a butane stove for now. The function is great, but ultimately I'd prefer a "real" propane stove (I'm more comfortable with a real/installed propane system, than with the quality control of a butane cartridge). For now I just keep the butane cartridges in the port lazarette when the stove is not in use (drains overboard).

The heater is the more complicated decision. I strongly considered the Wallas 1300 and it is still on my list. I don't think they can be changed much (e.g. thermostat), and they cannot be ducted beyond one short hose. They are also maybe not large enough for regular use in freezing temps. OTOH, they are simple, compact, and "cheap" (as Wallases go). I have talked to (or read posts of) a few Brats who have them and really like them (Aurelia, Life of Riley, Dora~Jean). They say if they get too hot, they crack a window or the door.

From my research, the Wallas "purely a heater" models are a bit less persnickety than the combo heater/cookers (makes sense, since the latter are doing two jobs not one).

The slightly larger Wallas 1800 I believe does have a thermostat, and can also have ducts; it's a bit larger, but not a huge amount. I am not sure if it would fit neatly under the galley as the 1300 does. I had measured and calculated at one point, but now I can't remember what I came up with. I ruled out the diesel heaters they have as they are larger/more expensive and with a gas engine, there is not the motivation to stick with "just one fuel" as there would be with a diesel engine/diesel heater.

I thought about something like an Espar, but I don't really like the way they sound (loud) from other boats in an anchorage. I didn't go into that much further though.

I also considered the propane P9000 fireplace. Looks-wise its a winner, and there is no chance of diesel or kerosene smell, obviously. If I have a propane system already (if I put one in for a cooker) then that's already there. OTOH, there isn't a great place to put it. On the counter, the chimney is a bit short of spec (although apparently it works fine), it takes up counter space, and the heat is already halfway to the overhead. I've seen one built in under the galley sink, but that sacrificed that whole side of stowage (plus chimney coming up through counter also).

I thought about a Wave 3 catalytic heater. I have used one in an RV. They are simple to "install," inexpensive, and easy to stow away when not in heating season. The required ventilation can be provided by cracking windows. Still, they are un-vented, and even with cracked windows, who needs more moisture in a C-Dory cabin? They are meant to run from regulated propane, so that's still a propane system.

Another potential negative to any propane fired heater, is that if you go on a long trip (say Inside Passage), there is no way to "stockpile" fuel. You can't suddenly make three times as much propane fit in your propane locker; whereas you *can* load in extra gallons of Kleen Heet or kerosene, etc. This may or may not matter to you.

As with the stove, I decided to take a "temporary" approach while I assessed my options and use of the boat. To that end, started with a "Little Buddy" heater, which runs from the one-pound disposable green propane tanks. Of course NOT used while underway, and carefully watched even at anchor. I used it for an hour or so morning or evening in calm anchorages, but never overnight. It's got an upright form factor (hence can be tippy), so I then switched to a Coleman BlackCat (previous model with a metal triangle frame has a tidier form factor than the current plastic one), which is a similar heater, but designed to sit down more horizontally and hence is more stable (still don't use underway or at night). I keep those cylinders in the vented port lazarette also (including the in-use one when not using heater).

I guess there is no perfect solution, and the P9000 flames would be very nice to look at, but if I had to choose tomorrow, I'd probably go for the Wallas 1300 or 1800. But I may change my mind Very Happy
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colbysmith



Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Posts: 4523
City/Region: Madison
State or Province: WI
C-Dory Year: 2009
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Traveler
Photos: C-Traveler and Midnight-Flyer
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 1:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Sunbeam, yes I read many of your thoughts on this earlier. I too had the little buddy, but didn't like how it worked. And as they say, those propane burners just add to the moisture issue. The little electric heater I have works good, but needs shore power to run. I'm very happy with how our little one burner butane stove works, so like they say, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I'm wondering if there might be any little thermostat gadgets out there that one could put in line with the switch on the 1300. That might be the answer for me. I'd really like to have thermostatic control of a heater, so that I'm not waking up all nite long to turn it off or on! I'm not sure, but looks like the 1800 does have a thermostat. Maybe diesel, but I don't remember. I like diesel over kerosene, as it's a safer fuel. The 1300 would probably work fine during the day, as it can just be switched off and on as necessary. I was also looking at the Wabasco (I think that's the name of it...2000?) Ebay had one kit on sale for $880, but not sure what else would need to be purchased. It said everything was there to install, but first thing I noticed was that it did not appear to come with a fuel tank.... Colby
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johnf



Joined: 12 Jan 2005
Posts: 339
City/Region: Tigard, OR
State or Province: OR
Photos: Boat Name TBD II (johnf)
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Colby the Webasto was one of my favorite contenders early this year...check out their thermostat funtion....just love it.

But I also wanted 2 burners which the Nordic DT gave me.

In all my research I think the Webasto is an excellent choice.

Good luck,

John

P.S. will be anxious to hear what you decide, install and how you like it...
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Aurelia



Joined: 21 Aug 2009
Posts: 2331
City/Region: Gig Harbor
State or Province: WA
Photos: Aurelia
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Wallas 1300

You can wire a remote switch to turn it on/off from a distance such as the berth and I could see wiring up a remote thermoswitch with the unit and that remote switch. Remember, when you turn it off, it still runs from a few minutes of cool down before turning all the way OFF and the On is a similar multi-minute process. I could see a thermoswitch rigged up but it would very likely cycle the unit on-off many times during a single night and that much regular cycling may not be good for it, not allowing it to fully heat up potentially...?

It will more than heat a 22 cabin in freezing conditions and if you just crack a window you can leave it going during the night if you wanted to. CO2 detector and all... It does use very little fuel and power so we have no quams about "venting" excess heat and keeping the unit running and did recently use it during the latter half of a cool night at anchor.

It has enough output to also heat our canvas enclosed cockpit in freezing weather.

http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?set_albumName=album2026&id=20141115_193257_LLS&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php

http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?set_albumName=album2026&id=20141115_195341&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php

One last note and that is the reason we really went with the 1300 over the other options which do work quite well and have more features. Noise! The 1300 is the quietest both from inside and outside the boat and being a person who can't sleep well with noise, that made the choice for me. If you can sleep through noise and get to sleep with noise in the boat then lucky you and forget about that aspect.

Greg

_________________
Greg, Cindie & Aven
Gig Harbor
Aurelia - 25 Cruiser sold 2012
Ari - 19 Cruiser sold 2023
currently exploring with "Lia", 17 ft Bullfrog Supersport Pilothouse
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colbysmith



Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Posts: 4523
City/Region: Madison
State or Province: WI
C-Dory Year: 2009
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Traveler
Photos: C-Traveler and Midnight-Flyer
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Greg and others for the comments so far. As of now, I'm very likely going to go with the Webasto AT2000. It seems to offer most of what I want, and a reasonable price when one buys it from ebay as opposed to the marine version from the marine vendors. Anyway, moving discussion of this unit over to another Thread more on topic.

http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?p=285391#285391
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