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Larry Patrick



Joined: 03 Dec 2011
Posts: 605
City/Region: Dallas
State or Province: PA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: Sea -Jo
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:35 pm    Post subject: Latest trip Reply with quote

Took trip up Cayuga Lake in very rough conditions. Didn't see much boat traffic. Now realize sayings about boat can handle more than you. Also saying about your fillings coming out. A lot of banging of boat into waves needed to try and make time on 40 mile trip to end of lake then over to Seneca Falls thru locks. After trip had loose screws and header was sagging in berth. Fan near cockpit windows came loose. We left to late in the day ,anymore will leave with enough time to spare for bads conditions.
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 21550
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you trimming bow down, using Permatrims, and trim table? What was your speed. You should try and avoid running the boat to the point where there are things shaking loose.
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Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL
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jimicliff



Joined: 16 Jun 2009
Posts: 180
City/Region: Mount Dora
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 16 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Ocklawaha Queen
Photos: Ocklawaha Queen
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two weeks ago I had simular situation in my Ocklawaha Queen, I spent a couple of days at Conch House marina in St Augustine Fl. I decedided to go out to the Atlantic and go north to at least Jacksonville and if things remained ok all the way to Fernandina. I left 3 hours before neutral tide and that was my mistake as well as leaving my two front windows open.
NOA weather said two to three foot seas so I felt very comfortable. The only two inlets to the Atlantic I had been thru were Jacksonville and Fernandina which are military bases and both locations the granite sea walls go much further out than St Augustines inlet. I learned the hard way that a short inlet requires netural tide not two mention leaving my windows open. I did my trim right, the tabs down as well as dolphin on my engine but the waves for the short inlet before netural tide were so steep I managed to get my prop out of the water once as well as every unsecure item was thrown about. One of my brackets for my open wind shield waas ripped from its threads. Luckly I didn't take water over the bow and in thru my open windows. My first 3 or 4 miles were interesting as well, at 4500 Rpms I usually run 19 to 21 mph. Well that day the current would reduce my speed to 10 mph then it would release me back to my normal speed near 20 mph. This current would cycle every 5 minues or so. Got home fixed my window and learned more than I ever would have imaginrd about my 16ft hull, she really is very "sea worthy" more so than me. The two big lessons..... close bow windows for an inlet and only shoot a short inlet at netural tide. Oh and you better have a netural tide to return as well. Theres nothing like learning how little I really know.

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T.R. Bauer



Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 1808
City/Region: Wasilla
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 1993
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Whisperer
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been caught in the Gulf of Alaska LOTS of times and being caught is horrible. I never go out in conditions like that, but am forced to come back to port in them. I agree with Bob once again as if you are tearing things up in the boat you are probably going a bit too fast. Yet, with that said, I wasn't there.
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Foggy



Joined: 01 Aug 2013
Posts: 1585
City/Region: Traverse City; Northern Lake Michigan
State or Province: MI
C-Dory Year: 2014
C-Dory Model: 26 Venture
Vessel Name: Boatless in Boating Paradise
Photos: W B Nod
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How often do we check our bilge pump before going out?

If you get caught, or find yourself in the nasties, take on
serious aft cockpit water with debris or pet hair clogged
or otherwise nonfunctional bilge pump, well, you're sunk.

Aye.

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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 21550
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I learned the hard way that a short inlet requires netural tide


Tide is related to the depth of the water, and current is related to velocity of water over the bottom. So the best time to run an inlet is slack or no current. This time may not be the same as the highest or lowest of tides, although logically it might seem to be. It depends on many dynamic factors. Thus it is always good to check the tide and current tables. Look carefully at an inlet--often from inside it may look calmer than it actually is.

Running into an inlet, especially on a ebb tide (water coming out) can be very dangerous. Although our C Dories are very "sea worthy", one has to be cautious. There is a reason that the Coast Guard motor life boats have no real cockpit. They are basically made to survive a capsize. Although a capsize would be unusual, one does not need to tempt fate!

Foggy's comment is very important. Many boats, will have two or more bilge pumps. The way the C Dory sits at level rest, often the water will pool by the foreword end of the cockpit--and that is where the factory bilge pump was put on some boats. Others had the bilge pump placed all of the way aft, right by the drain plug, since that is where water pools when the boat is running at faster speeds, including on a plane.
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Will-C



Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 2476
City/Region: Temple
State or Province: PA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: Will-C
Photos: Will-C
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:28 pm    Post subject: Latest trip Reply with quote

In the summer out east at least. Most crossings on larger bodies of waters are better done early in the day. The afternoons especially in the finger lake region can bring nasty local unpredicted storms. The winds usually come up in the afternoons almost everywhere. It's not always the case, but most times people do crossings early in the day in larger non tidal lakes for that same reason. Severe pounding can almost always be avoided by slowing down. Boats and all their components stay together a little longer if they are not subjected to a lot of harsh treatment. Playing beat the clock in a boat is never good.
D.D.

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rogerbum



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 5928
City/Region: Kenmore
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Meant to be
Photos: SeaDNA
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thataway wrote:
Quote:
I learned the hard way that a short inlet requires netural tide


Tide is related to the depth of the water, and current is related to velocity of water over the bottom. So the best time to run an inlet is slack or no current. This time may not be the same as the highest or lowest of tides, although logically it might seem to be. It depends on many dynamic factors. Thus it is always good to check the tide and current tables. Look carefully at an inlet--often from inside it may look calmer than it actually is.

Running into an inlet, especially on a ebb tide (water coming out) can be very dangerous. Although our C Dories are very "sea worthy", one has to be cautious. There is a reason that the Coast Guard motor life boats have no real cockpit. They are basically made to survive a capsize. Although a capsize would be unusual, one does not need to tempt fate!

Foggy's comment is very important. Many boats, will have two or more bilge pumps. The way the C Dory sits at level rest, often the water will pool by the foreword end of the cockpit--and that is where the factory bilge pump was put on some boats. Others had the bilge pump placed all of the way aft, right by the drain plug, since that is where water pools when the boat is running at faster speeds, including on a plane.


I'd add that a slack tide is not necessarily better than a flood tide - especially on river bars. A flood will flatten out the swells at a river bar better than a slack tide as it will counteract the current outflow of the river.

As for Foggy's point about checking your bilge pumps, my guess is that those with a 22 do it far more often than those with a 25 or a Tomcat where checking the bilge pump means looking beneath the cockpit floor. If you haven't installed hatches in the floor above the pumps, this requires opening the hatches on the stern and putting one's head into a hole. I've taken to rinsing out my bilges on the Tomcat with freshwater so that I can see the pumps activate and pump the bilges dry. This also allows me to visually inspect the flow rate.

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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 21550
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roger's point is very well made. There are different dynamics on the various types of inlets, and a river bar has different dynamics than some of the other types of inlets. Some inlets or passages can only be crossed in high slack water or near--for example the Ford's Terror inlet.

Also local knowledge is often essential in bars. Often the CG buoys are not exactly in the correct place for the best passage because of the dynamics of the bar and water. We have accepted CG accompaniment on a number of occasions, or followed local boats on bars where there was significant danger.

Although we think of the Western Coast US bars as more dangerous than the Eastern, often the Eastern can be very dangerous in onshore storms. My own experience is that the CG monitors the states of the bars in the West better than in the East. But the CG can be wrong. An example was once crossing the Coos Bay Bar in Oregon, and we had CG clearance as a "go". As we went out a 12 foot breaker came over the bow of our 46 foot boat, and the bar was immediately closed. (This did not appear to be a "sneaker"--because there were a series of breakers which followed.) Other boats had to wait for entrance, or go on up the coast. These situations can be an issue because of fuel range for many boats.

Be safe--don't take chances! Remember the two boys who were lost in the 19 foot boat only a couple of weeks ago on the East Coast!
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jimicliff



Joined: 16 Jun 2009
Posts: 180
City/Region: Mount Dora
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 16 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Ocklawaha Queen
Photos: Ocklawaha Queen
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2015 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi everybody the Ocklawaha Q has a question ? Do you guys think my 16 cruiser weighing
roughly 1300 lbs with fuel and motor has a big handeling difference compared to yall's 4000 lb 22 cruiser. I stepped on board a 22 from my boat last year and I could not belive the difference. My toy is just like a dingy by comparison. I understand all of the C Dorys float like a cork but the difference in weight makes me curious. I used to race Lasers so trimming all the time is just reflex, in fact I like it since I can't sail any more. Smile
When I was out in the Atlantic two weeks ago it was pretty exciting like riding a horse, the intervals were far enough apart to feel like a small meadow and add the current holding me and releasing me was pretty exciting. If ya'll think I'm foolish I'd like some input, I'll try and take it well. I've trained in kayaks and have run the Grand Canyon, I raced 470's & Lasers so I have a love for getting my heart rate up. I'm not crazy but I have a lot of nerve, I'm 61 and I'm just trying to play my "Sand in the our Glass" tight not commit suicide. Wink
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T.R. Bauer



Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 1808
City/Region: Wasilla
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 1993
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Whisperer
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2015 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think you're crazy, and you'd really like my good friend Phil because you and he sound like two peas.....Anyway, my only concern with operating in marginal conditions is when they get worse than marginal, and the will get worse on you eventually, with no way out or place to wait things out, the closest land is often the bottom. And, it is somewhere I don't really want to go.
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Larry Patrick



Joined: 03 Dec 2011
Posts: 605
City/Region: Dallas
State or Province: PA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: Sea -Jo
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well time being a factor ,I pushed the boat learning that I don't want to do it again. Didn't realize till after that some things had come lose. I remembered everyone saying the boat can take more than you,so I figured no harm in trying to get up to locks before I thought they would close. Everything is a learning expierence,certainly don't want to beat boat up we really like our boat. Only used the engine to trim it has permatrim on it didn't use trim tabs but thought about it. Guess I was sort of checking out its capabilities in choppy waves.Look forward to waves that have longer periods between them . Im guessing 40 miles took in nieghboorhood of 3.5hrs,give or take. After starting out wanted to make it some place safe to stay for night,we had generator with us if needed so pushed it to find good place to stay. Ended up locks were open til 10 at night ,so could have slowed down. When I saw some things loose .I said anymore will go according to conditions and leave earlier. GPS showed between 6mph and around 20 mph depending on how hard it pounded after a while would slow down again.. Once when I stopped to flip from stern tank to starboard tank boat got sideways and really rocked and rolled. On return trip lake was flat at times gps showed 30 mph with throttle all the way,but would change it up to let engine not be pushed all the way back.
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 21550
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2015 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jimicliff, TR is correct, that you don't want to be out in conditions which get worse than you can handle. Things like running the GC, racing lasers, etc are fairly controlled situations. Rough weather--lets say 25 knots, going to 50 knots, waves 3 feet going to 10 feet breaking, becomes dangerous. Weather reports/forecasts are not always accurate.

Yes, there is a huge difference between a 16 and a 22, a bit less between a 22 and 25, and some more between the 25 and Tom Cat.
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jimicliff



Joined: 16 Jun 2009
Posts: 180
City/Region: Mount Dora
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 16 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Ocklawaha Queen
Photos: Ocklawaha Queen
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2015 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You guys are so cool, you feel like older brothers, I'm not crazy just nervy, nothing new nothing to prove. Beer Lifes short then you die Cry
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Robert H. Wilkinson



Joined: 26 Jan 2011
Posts: 1280
City/Region: Port Ryerse
State or Province: ON
Vessel Name: Romakeme IV
Photos: Romakeme IV
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2015 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Larry Patrick wrote:
Once when I stopped to flip from stern tank to starboard tank boat got sideways


Larry, some things I would recommend trying based on my experiences with 2 tank boats.

If boating in marginal(rough) conditions I would only run the first tank down to about 1/4. Rough conditions have a way of stirring up any crud on the bottom and you don't want to pick any up and risk clogging something at a bad time. This also helps a bit with trim.

If you have a first mate aboard slow down to hull speed(just enough speed to maintain headway and steerage) then one of you make the tank switch and continue on.

If you have fuel injection it is not recommended to run the engine out of fuel. Also if you do run until engine dies - some are a bit cranky trying to restart when hot.

Regards, Rob

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