C-22 with 140 HP

bobjarrard · Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 9:24 pm Post subject: C-22 with 140 HP

There is a nice looking C-22 in Alaska for sale that has a 140 HP Suzuki. Apart from the legal issues, is this too much HP for a C-22? The motor only has 140 hours and there is a 10 HP Suzuki kicker also with 10 hrs. Rel nice Electra-Dyne pot puller and a nice cabin top rack for pots etc.. Motors are in warranty until 2019. This boat is set up to fish and has no camper back.
Bob Jarrard

Robert H. Wilkinson · Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 9:51 pm Post subject:

I suppose this might fall under your "legal issues" banner but some insurance companies will deny you if boat is powered above the compliance plate limit. In my area a lot of marina's won't rent you a slip without a valid insurance policy.

Regards, Rob

jkidd · Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 11:28 pm Post subject:

The factory told me it was more of a weight thing. The 22 doesn't require the sticker. When I purchased my boat 100 hp was max when I told the factory I wanted a 115 hp they installed it and left the sticker off. So mine doesn't have a sticker. What does the 140 weigh. I did mine because of altitude. That being said I don't think you could run at wot. I don't think you would be able to control it.

tsturm · Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 11:35 pm Post subject: Re: C-22 with 140 HP

Jack in Alaska · Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:40 am Post subject: big engine

I purchased a new 1983 C-Dory in 1983. Drove to Kent, Wash. to pick it up. Purchased without an engine as i had a relatively new 115 HP Johnson in my garage in Alaska. The boat had a capacity plaque which specified 75 HP max. At the time Mark Toland told me that 115 hp was too much and do not open it up. He said that the boat could handle it but it was not needed. I drove back to Alaska and installed the 115. Took it up to Big Lake for a test run . Me and 6 gals of gas was the load. After getting familiar with it I decided to open it up to "see what she would do". What it did was scare the crap out of me. After reaching about 35 mph(5500 rpm) it suddenly rolled over on it's side to port. Pulled back on the throttle. Tried it again going the other direction. Same result.
I never opened it up again but ran it usually between 3000 and 3500 rpms. It was just fine that way at 17 mph with all of the stuff I had in it. Ran that engine for 14 years. Replaced it with a 1997 Honda 90 HP. It is still in use today by my son Dan. THe Honda handled the boat much better, quieter, burned 1/3 the fuel etc.
I would install the 140 hp engine but be aware of what can happen.

Wefings · Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 7:30 am Post subject:

I believe boats over 20' can be powered any way you like . The sticker is a factory suggestion ,not a rule of law . The sticker is not required .The 140 Suzuki is the same motor as the 115 weightwise .
Marc

bobjarrard · Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 11:23 am Post subject: Great input!!

Great input on my question about a Suzuki 140 on a C-22. The 140 has corrosion issues i the past bu this must be a fairly new motor given the amount of warranty left and the low engine hours. With a kicker, the 140 HP engine and the pot puller gear there is a fair amount of pre-crew and gear weight. As this is the same engine at the Suzuki 115 I assume you could de-tune to lower the HP - lots of small HP engines are all on the same block from 6-8 HP and even wider in HP range. the boast is for sale at 39K and apart from no camper back is very well set up - lots of gear. Thanks for opinions. And Marc, you are always there for us - great dealer support and you deserve our loyalty when it is time to buy a new or used boat (or get some service).
Bob Jarrard

T.R. Bauer · Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 12:02 pm Post subject:

CD 22s handle a bit goofy past 32-33 or so mph when lightly loaded. However, I suspect they are much better when loaded for cruising. Considering how stern heavy lots of boats are (like mine with twins, a kicker, extra fuel, house battery, shrimp pots.....), the weight of the 140 (400 pounds) really is not an issue because you can just trim that out, and 400 pounds isn't much anyway. As Jack notes the hull design does not feel stable at high speeds although I think everything feel good all the way into the upper 20s to lower 30s, which works my twin 45s a little too hard. Unless there is a real legal issue with the 140, it wouldn't stop me from buying it. You can always go slower.

thataway · Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:09 pm Post subject:

The 140 hp is only available at the high end (getting up to 4500 to 5000 RPM--the rest of the RPM range is basically the same as the 115, since they are the same block.

I have a 140, and no corrosion issues. There were specifics where the corrosion occurred. If you know about the issues, watch the motor, and flush it regularly--it should be fine.

I would not have a problem running the boat with the 140, but be cautious--as others noted--if you feel you want to go over 30 knots! Under most conditions the boat will be OK, but there are specifics where you could have issues...

Chester · Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 11:02 am Post subject:

Too much weight back there with the 140 + the kicker.
If you were to ride in one that is balanced then that one you would understand.
Those boats were originally powered with a single lightweight 75 hp 2 stroke IIRC.

tsturm · Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:36 pm Post subject:

tsturm · Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:40 pm Post subject:

Rcbeach · Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:55 pm Post subject:

I am concerned about the direction of this conversation. The builder/manufacture of a boat should provide specifications on the design of the boat and its capabilities. NMI has done that and has provided a link to the C-Dory website that clearly states the maximum HP for the 22 C-Dory. If you exceed that recommendation of NMI you may be responsible for a civil suit if you are involved in an accident where someone gets hurt or there is property damage. Also your insurance may be null and void if you exceed the manufactures recommendations. If you have an older boat not built by NMI, based upon the year of manufacture of your C-Dory and if there is documentation from that boat manufacture for that year I would not exceed the manufacture recommendation for powering or loading that boat. If you do you may be at risk.

Currently I believe NMI is at risk since they state (via their website) that the empty weight of a 22 C-Dory cruiser is 1925 lbs, when actually it weighs about about 1000 lbs heaver. This is causing issues for owners and dealers in choosing the correct trailer.

I love my boat but because of poor specification from the manufacture I currently have a trailer that just meets the needs of the boat and engine. When I trailer I need to carry most of the equipment I need for cruising in my tow vehicle. A boat manufacture needs to be better than just a good boat builder, they need to provide information to the boat owner/user on its capabilities and operation.

thataway · Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 11:52 pm Post subject:

The original post clearly stated "beside the legal issues". So that has been clear from the beginning. I won't go into legal issues--which I believe is a very complicated subject. There are many boats which put on higher hp motors, in this size and type of boat. There are specific reasons why the builders list 115 hp. One is weight, one is speed, but I do not believe that a 140 will structurally stress the transom. As noted the 115 and 140 are the same weight. (there are some numbers floating around that the Suzuki 140 is actually about 128 hp, and several boat Test. com tests which show that the real performance on the same boats with the Yamaha 115 and the Suzuki 140, shows the Yamaha 115 to be the "winner".) I would not be afraid to buy or run a C Dory 22, with a 140 hp Suzuki. (But I would not with a 150 Suzuki) One of the reasons is that I know the motors, and know the C Dories, and would not abuse the boat with that motor--in fact would be happy to have that extra HP (not really all there) at higher altitudes with heavy loads. Just an opinion--and is made in disregard to potential legal issues which may or may not be valid.

bobjarrard · Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 6:51 pm Post subject: No hornets in the nest please!

I should have bolded "legal issues aside" in my first post! Just a few observations:
#1 There is no minimum HP listed on the spec plate but we all know that being under powered can get you in real trouble, especially if you are operating under the thought that you have the HP grunt to outrun a storm on a plane when loaded down.
#2 In Alaska where this boat operated, the conditions are brutal and I see lots of boats with HP rigs on the high side. I have seen Calkins Bartenders at 22' with 350 CID's from Kodiak pulling lots of HP and others running a small diesel of 40 HP or so. Guess you have to know what your goals and limits are.
#3 I have been a C-Brat without a boat for many years. I hesitate to post at times as I don't always know if I have accurate info to share but but I can tell you that this is a fine Forum to belong to and I am grateful to be allowed into the club.
#4 I really do want to buy a boat, I just bought a house near Lake Mead to justify buying a boat. I think the bigger issues than HP are ones such as core failure, trailer design, ethanol in our fuel, electronics that are smarter than some of us older folk, and actually finding the time to to discover what on water speed scares us to death!
Thanks for all the input on the boat - it must of just sold, off the Anchorage Craig's List a few minutes ago - maybe we gave the seller some press!!!
Bob Jarrard