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Casey
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 1094 City/Region: The Villages(FL)
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: "Dessert 1st"
Photos: Dessert 1st
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Posted: Fri May 01, 2015 6:38 am Post subject: Cleaning rust from stainless |
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Over the years our stainless bow rail and bimini hardware have developed some surface discoloration and a bit of rust-like stain.
We'd like to clean it up, but don't really want to try a dozen products before finding the Right one.
What have you found that works the Best?
Best,
C&M _________________ 2013 CC23 "Katmai" renamed "Dessert 1st"
2006 CC23 "Katmai" (purchased August 2009)
2003 CD22 "Naknek" (sold May 2008) |
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rogerbum
Joined: 21 Nov 2004 Posts: 5922 City/Region: Kenmore
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Meant to be
Photos: SeaDNA
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Posted: Fri May 01, 2015 9:22 am Post subject: |
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Casey,
I think the most common opinion I've heard on this site re: that problem is that Barkeeper's friend is the product to use - https://www.barkeepersfriend.com _________________ Roger on Meant to be |
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BrentB
Joined: 15 Jul 2006 Posts: 4419 City/Region: Greenwood
State or Province: IN
Photos: BrentB
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Posted: Fri May 01, 2015 11:30 am Post subject: |
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I use liquid Barkeepers friend and a cotton cloth then a coat of wax. BF will remove rust and polish too _________________ Brent Barrett |
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journey on
Joined: 03 Mar 2005 Posts: 3595 City/Region: Valley Centre
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: journey on
Photos: Journey On
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Posted: Fri May 01, 2015 11:49 am Post subject: |
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I use this stuff: Davis Rust Remover. It's not an abrasive, but uses oxalic acid. I've used it for years and it's worked well. I do flush it off after it's done it's job. Doesn't hurt fiberglass.
There's also a citrus based stainless steel rust remover: CitriSurf.
I would think a polish is an abrasive, and doesn't remove all the rust.
Boris |
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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 20812 City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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Posted: Fri May 01, 2015 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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Just plain oxalic acid works. There is also "rust away" . BarKeepers friend has a mild abrasive, but also works very well, and we carry it aboard. _________________ Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL |
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JamesTXSD
Joined: 01 Mar 2005 Posts: 7445 City/Region: from island boy to desert dweller
State or Province: AZ
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: "Wild Blue" (sold 9/14)
Photos: Wild Blue
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Posted: Fri May 01, 2015 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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I have been using Nevr-Dull on stainless for years - it takes the staining off (um, isn't that supposed to be "stainless"?? ). Then, when waxing the hull, I put a light coat of wax on the stainless. In places where the stainless staining has run onto the fiberglass, Starbrite Hull Cleaner takes it off... then needs another coat of wax in that area.
http://www.nevrdull.com/ |
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Sunbeam
Joined: 23 Feb 2012 Posts: 3990 City/Region: Out 'n' About
State or Province: Other
C-Dory Year: 2002
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: Sunbeam
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Posted: Fri May 01, 2015 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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I like Spotless Stainless (Scan Marine sells it as I recall). It's supposed to somewhat re-passivate the stainless IIRC. I've also used Wichinox. |
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Casey
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 1094 City/Region: The Villages(FL)
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: "Dessert 1st"
Photos: Dessert 1st
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Posted: Fri May 01, 2015 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks All !
I bought some liquid Barkeeper's friend this afternoon at Walmart.
I have no idea when I'll get around to the stainless ... but at least I don't have an excuse anymore.
Best,
C&M |
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srbaum
Joined: 30 Aug 2010 Posts: 877 City/Region: Portsmouth
State or Province: VA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 26 Venture
Vessel Name: Osprey
Photos: Osprey
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Posted: Sat May 02, 2015 9:22 am Post subject: |
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Barkeepers Helper has always done a good job on my boats, but I also keep a Miracle Polishing Cloth [ http://www.polishingcloth.net/ ] in each boat's tool kit, as it works well, it reusable and last for a very long time without taking up much space or weight. I had read an article in Practical Sailor that steered me to this product about 5 years ago. I purchased the product on-line in a package of 10 for cheap... _________________ Steve Baum
Homeport of Portsmouth, VA
OSPREY (Ex Mister Sea) 2000 22 C-Dory 2010 - Sold 3/19
OSPREY (Ex ADITI) 2007 26 Cape Cruiser 2018 |
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hardee
Joined: 30 Oct 2006 Posts: 12632 City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
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Posted: Sat May 02, 2015 10:28 am Post subject: |
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Casey,
You took the words right out of my mouth. And Jim, Stainless--ya right, right?
If you are speaking of the bow rail and cleats, those are most likely 316 Stainless Steel. (Now, I am not a metallurgist, chemist, machinist or welder so this is all second hand info......) 316 is more brittle, and takes a higher polish. the other common "stainless" is the 304 version. Softer, less brittle, and contains a higher amount of iron.... so it rusts more, more easily. I found this out, practically, when I had my splash well arch bracket built for my inflatable. I specified 316, but the 304 was substituted without my knowledge. Long story short, the 304 takes considerably more effort. This spring I took the whole rack off and took it to a fellow in Portland who "polished" the whole thing. It looked great, but any salt spray shows and the not so good looking brown spots.
I have tried a thin coat of WD-40, recommended by the polisher, and just recently picked up the Barkeeper's Friend, liquid but have not tried it yet. The WD-40 is not doing the trick so moving on.
It is interesting that everyone seems to have different product that works. I'm curious if they have a common component. I believe that "stainless" has to have access to oxygen to block the rust, so I have avoided using a wax on it. Of course, I could be wrong --but it might be the first time
I'll be watching this thread with interest.
Some of the things I have heard that I have not seen here is to use crumpled tin foil to clean the rust off with, and another is Mr Clean Erasures. I have used the tin foil on a stainless hitch ball. it worked, but it took some time.
So a question to add to the original (what do you use to clean the rust off?) is: After you get the stainless polished, what do you do to keep it that way?
Harvey
SleepyC
_________________ Though in our sleep we are not conscious of our activity or surroundings, we should not, in our wakefulness, be unconscious of our sleep. |
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Sunbeam
Joined: 23 Feb 2012 Posts: 3990 City/Region: Out 'n' About
State or Province: Other
C-Dory Year: 2002
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: Sunbeam
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Posted: Sat May 02, 2015 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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Harvey,
I think you have the numbers somewhat reversed. At least as I have always understood it, 304 stainless (which is the "common" type) is stronger/harder, but more corrosion prone than 316 stainless. On the other hand, 316 is slightly softer/less strong. However, most hardware on boats is not so closely sized that substituting 316 for 304 causes any sort of strength problem. It's not like 316 is actually "soft."
I try to use 316 fasteners (when using stainless at all), and when replacing hardware on my boat will also go for 316 if possible. The original Sea Dog cleats were 304; I changed them to 316 (Sea Dog offers a 316 alternative). I would imagine the bow rail is 304.
McMaster Carr is a good source for 316 fasteners (except for oval headed), whereas most hardware stores seem to only stock 304 (why I buy at McMaster instead).
As far as what to coat stainless with, I'm not sure. Stainless relies on contact with oxygen to remain "stainless," so I don't know that you would want to block that. That's one reason why you can have a problem if you, say, tape over an area of stainless (blocks air, corrosion/rust can happen). Don't know if wax or etc. would do that, but I like to leave my stainless open to the air. What I understand is that passivating/re-passivating is good for protecting it from corrosion, and products like Spotless Stainless and Wichinox are supposed to do that to some extent, I think (read up on it years ago but now forget the details).
I still prefer bronze to any stainless, but in a way stainless seems to "suit" the 22 (and of course it is already loaded with it) so I stick with it, but go for 316 if at all possible. |
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Will-C
Joined: 21 Aug 2007 Posts: 2476 City/Region: Temple
State or Province: PA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: Will-C
Photos: Will-C
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Posted: Sat May 02, 2015 1:52 pm Post subject: Cleaning rust from stainless |
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We use Prism liquid metal polish. A little goes a long way. This stuff works like a charm.
D.D. _________________ Chevrolet The Heart Beat Of America |
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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 20812 City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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Posted: Sat May 02, 2015 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | GENERAL PROPERTIES TYPE 304
Type 304 stainless steels can meet a wide variety of physical requirements, making them excellent materials for applications including auto molding and trim, wheel covers, kitchen equipment, hose clamps, springs, truck bodies, exhaust manifolds, stainless atware, storage tanks, pressure vessels and piping.
TYPICAL ANALYSIS TYPE 304
Represented by ASTM-A240 AND ASME SA240.
Elements by Percentage by Weight - Maximum Unless Range is Specified.
C = .08 / Mn = 2.00 / P = .045 / S = .030 / Si = 1.00 / Cr = 18.00 - 20.00 / Ni = 8.00-12.00 / N = .10
RESISTANCE TO CORROSION TYPE 304
The 18% chromium, 8% nickel, provides good resistance to moderately acidic or caustic solutions. Type 304 may be considered to perform similarly in most non-severe applications. A notable exception is in the case of welding. Low carbon (304L) is the recommended alloy and provides increased resistance to intergranular corrosion.
MECHANICAL PROPERTIES OF TYPE 304 AT ROOM TEMPERATURE
Typical Mechanical Properties required for annealed material covered by ASTM A240.
Yield Strength .2% offset = 30,000 / Ultimate Tensile Strength = 80,000 / Elongation = 50%. Hardness R = 90 max.
TYPE 316 STAINLESS STEEL
Type 316 is an austenitic chromium-nickel stainless and heat-resisting steel with superior corrosion resistance as compared to other chromium-nickel steels when exposed to many types of chemical corrodents such as sea water, brine solutions, and the like.
GENERAL PROPERTIES TYPE 316
Type 316 alloy is a molybdenum bearing stainless steel. It has a greater resistance to chemical attack than the 304 family. Similarly, Type 316 is durable, easy-to-fabricate, clean, weld and finish.
TYPICAL ANALYSIS TYPE 316
Represented by ASTM-A240 and ASME SA240.
C = .08 / Mn = 2.00 / P = .04 / S = .03 / Si = 1.00 / Cr = 16.00 - 18.00 / Ni = 10.00 - 14.00 / Mo = 2.00 - 3.00
RESISTANCE TO CORROSION TYPE 316
The addition of 2% molybdenum makes 316 considerably more resistant to corrosion and oxidation than the 304 family of alloys.
MECHANICAL PROPERTIES OF TYPE 316 AT ROOM TEMPERATURE
Typical Mechanical Properties required for annealed material covered by ASTM-A240. Yield Strength .2% offset = 30,000 / Ultimate Tensile Strength = 80,000 / Elongation = 50%. Hardness R = 90 max.
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The main difference is the addition of 2% molybdenum. I doubt if the average person can tell the difference. But much of the SS which comes to the US, especially in fittings, is made in china, and I suspect that the specs are all over the place. If you want a good quality product, then buy US, from a manufacture who tests the SS for composition before fabrications. It used to be we could sail in salt water races for years, and no corrosion. I note that a lot of the stuff we get now corrodes in short order. I suspect it is not only the composition, but also how it is blended. I'll check with my metallurgist friend
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hardee
Joined: 30 Oct 2006 Posts: 12632 City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
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Posted: Sun May 03, 2015 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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From a local fabricator I have been talking to lately:
"Welding either one is easy. BUT, if they are not flooded with argon during the process, rust will appear in time. The 304 will rust sooner than the 316.
Keeping the rust away is still an issue. Both need oxygen to delay rust incursion and corrosion."
Harvey
SleepyC
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smckean (Tosca)
Joined: 18 Jan 2014 Posts: 975 City/Region: Guemes Island (Anacortes)
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Tosca
Photos: Tosca
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Posted: Sun May 03, 2015 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | Both need oxygen to delay rust incursion and corrosion |
Harvey, I am confused by this. Can you explain it to me? Thanks |
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