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ghone



Joined: 13 Aug 2008
Posts: 1428
City/Region: Nanaimo
State or Province: BC
C-Dory Year: 2011
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Kerri On
Photos: Kerri On
PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Progress. I had my engine mechanic lined up for my 350 hour service this week. Had to phone and postpone as trailer wasn't doing trailer things. He suggested the banging on the drum routine. Told him I done that. Then he showed me the correct way to do it. 3-5 lb hammer in right hand, 3/4 brass round stock drift in left hand. Place drift in the the spokes of the wheel on the front and back of the drum where the shoes go. You want to smack the heavy cast iron drum to break the shoes free Without injuring yourself, deal the drift several mighty blows. I went to my trailer armed with new knowledge and borrowed items. After 45 minutes of mighty blows all 4 wheels were turning. Stiffly but turning. My mechanic said most brake shops only back off the shoes 5-6 clicks from a fully out brake. In his experience it is more like 10-12 clicks. Otherwise the slightly metallic shoes rust to the drum. I had a long chat with Mike at Road Runner trailer and he concurs. I asked how come no disc brake option in this size trailer? He intimated that the products were designed and passed government of Canada standards and were not required at this weight category. Ie price point. I could convert coupler and brakes to disc and thereby be in non compliance to standards. Properly adjusted these old style brakes should be foolproof and I'll bet most brake shops don't know how loose they should be. I'll know more in a few days. For now I'm going to go with my mechanics decades of experience and let him tweak my trailer. I must say both Port Boathouse Mike and Road Runner Mike are concerned about my trailer and are in dialogue with me for a solution. My feelings about RR trailers are kinder today than yesterday! Will keep you posted. George
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Sunbeam



Joined: 23 Feb 2012
Posts: 3990
City/Region: Out 'n' About
State or Province: Other
C-Dory Year: 2002
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: Sunbeam
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="ghone" I could convert coupler and brakes to disc and thereby be in non compliance to standards. [/quote]

Glad to hear you have found a probable solution (and a cause you can eliminate), but I don't understand the above. I would think discs/coupler would be an upgrade (in performance as well as maintainability) and so I don't understand how it would be non-compliant to standards (granted, I'm not Canadian, but you all strike me as being pretty logical).
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colbysmith



Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Posts: 4523
City/Region: Madison
State or Province: WI
C-Dory Year: 2009
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Traveler
Photos: C-Traveler and Midnight-Flyer
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read with interest all the postings about trailers and brakes recently. I have a very simple solution when it comes to trailer brakes, that has served me well over the years. True, I boat in fresh water, but I have also towed over salted roads. Straight electric brakes. Efficient, safe, relatively inexpensive. No expensive EOH pumps/motors, no hydraulic coupler failures, etc. As far as salt water goes, if you are running drums anyway, with a good set of electric brakes, you'll be no worse off on wear and tear, but maintenance will be easier. And yes, on rare occasion I have had the locking wheel (note, not wheel's, but wheel!) after the trailer has sat a while, but not often, and they have always broke free with a bit of a tug. (And usually only if I have adjusted them to tightly.) Then again, I maintain by brakes by checking them occasionally and pulling the wheels every few years. If you have the money, go ahead and spend it on the expensive systems... Smile But if you are looking for a cost efficient system that works and fairly easy to maintain, I will continue to recommend all electric brakes over anything else! If you run in salt, yeah, you'll have to wash them down frequently, just like any thing else that is not aluminum or galvanized! Colby
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ghone



Joined: 13 Aug 2008
Posts: 1428
City/Region: Nanaimo
State or Province: BC
C-Dory Year: 2011
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Kerri On
Photos: Kerri On
PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to follow up with results. After weighing a lot of options including trading in my trailer for a new one, we decided to just go with the trailer we know. My mechanic found all shoes corroding off and some in pieces with a lot of rust. This was all new 2 years ago as I rebuilt the brakes in Yuma Az. Not being able to really flush salt out lead me to bite the bullet and upgrade. I had a local shop upgrade to Titan Disc brakes with a 1600 psi Atwood surge coupler with a reverse lockout lever built in. Much more robust looking coupler than the old. Should do the trick. The discs will be simple to flush. Thanks for all the info c brats!
George
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Sunbeam



Joined: 23 Feb 2012
Posts: 3990
City/Region: Out 'n' About
State or Province: Other
C-Dory Year: 2002
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: Sunbeam
PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nifty! If you think of it, it would be interesting to hear your impressions while you still have the feel of your "old rig" fresh in your mind as compared to the new version.

I never used my trailer the old way (the coupler was so bad I had to do something right away), so I only know it with Kodiak discs on both axles and a good surge coupler (with solenoid lockout). I can say I like it.
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20778
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since I will be putting brake systems on both of my trailers in the next few weeks, I have been thinking over the wash off brake situation.

There are two videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTI9KnVgnRM

http://trailerspa.biz/?page_id=29

and a web site:

http://trailerspa.biz

Basically this looks like a low flow spray system, with a garden sprayer, or garden hose hooked up to one point on the trailer. I suspect that a similar setup can be done fairly easily. I would focus only on the brakes, not the entire hull and trailer frame. I have been using a garden sprayer to clean the brakes and frame for a number of years--not that difficult to hook the garden sprayer up to a tubing system, as illustrated in the videos.

Disc brakes traditionally have been easiest wash off, but you often have both the fenders and boat in the way. Drum brakes can be accessed with one point and a hole drilled in the backing plate of the shoe retainer plate, but there seem to be more issues with seizing of the shoes onto the drums.

_________________
Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL
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ghone



Joined: 13 Aug 2008
Posts: 1428
City/Region: Nanaimo
State or Province: BC
C-Dory Year: 2011
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Kerri On
Photos: Kerri On
PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I explored adding the flush kit thru the backing plate but both the dealer and mechanic said they didn't seem to help much. The dealer said there are few issues in Port Alberni as everybody launches in the river. That's the best flush. I'll see how it handles with the boat on next week as we go in for engine service.
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journey on



Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 3593
City/Region: Valley Centre
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: journey on
Photos: Journey On
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've started to spray the disk brakes on Journey On with Salt Away. Works a lot better than just hosing them down with fresh water. The best is that, having a small sprayer in the back of the truck, I can spray those brakes just after it comes out of the water, when I launch and again when I retrieve.

Another comment. I'm not sure how brake shoes can rust to the drum. The have copper imbedded (or used to,) and copper may corrode, but can't rust to the drum. It's probably the show backing plate and other iron hardware in there. The new shoes are now ceramic.

Boris
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20778
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boris, In Calif. and Wa. the use of copper has been basically outlawed for environmental reasons. "Ceramic" can be almost anything--in today's world. Fe is still used in brake linings, even including steel wool.

Even without metalic/particulate iron in the brake pad material, particulate rust will get into the shoe--and then with moisture it will form more iron oxide, and then adhere to the drum--more moisture in high humidity environment -- especially with salt which will attract moisture--eventually the drum rusts and freezes to the shoe.

See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvKwct3HsIo You don't have to watch the entire video--the first few seconds shows the issue...
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ghone



Joined: 13 Aug 2008
Posts: 1428
City/Region: Nanaimo
State or Province: BC
C-Dory Year: 2011
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Kerri On
Photos: Kerri On
PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just pulled the boat to take in for engine service. Only a few miles so far but the load seems easier to tow. Maybe my old drums were dragging for much of the time. Trailer tows strait, my only concern is when loaded the front axle seems more heavily loaded with the frame rail within a half inch of the brake assembly not leaving much for bumps. The back axle is more like an inch and a quarter. I will measure for level as it's pretty close by eye but it may ride more level with a 1-2" rise on the hitch. Giving more clearance for the brake assy. We're getting there! George
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kevin ware



Joined: 28 Jun 2011
Posts: 93
City/Region: Mount Vernon
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: El Gato Thomas
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2014 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have an EZ loader for my Tom Cat. Bought the trailer separate from the boat 5 years ago. It had been used for salt water launches by previous owner, with iffy fresh water wash offs.

Found oil sealed wheel bearings OK, but surge system disc brakes thoroughly corroded and locking up, just like you described. Also found master cylinder corroded, and a lot of the hyd. lines worn, rusty or incapable of sustained pressure.

Replaced entire wheel bearing, brake system, and new master cylinder. Replaced all brake lines. Cost about $3,500. Expensive, but cheaper than new trailer.

Since then have avoided salt water launches whenever possible, but when dunked in salt water have thoroughly washed off system with garden hose, the sprayed it down with WD40...something we regularly use on amphib float airplanes in salt water.

WD 40 breaks down whatever residual salt water exist, and gives everything a slight uncorrosive treatment. The amount of 'oil' is minimal, and does effect braking after the first couple of stops.

Just returned from 2800 mile trip from WA to AZ for the Lake Powell meeting. Had system checked before we left, mechanic says wheels and brakes are 'like new'. No problem on the trip.

I would spend some serious money on the brakes, before spending even more serious money on a new trailer.
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