Freezer/Refrigerators, portable

[thataway]

Follow up: The tech came out this AM. He had talked to Dometic, whose response was that they realized that there can be a problem with the thermistor, so they have a "kit", which bypasses the original (unplug from the circuit board, which is easy to get to). That kit involves drilling several holes in the unit's interiior case, and glueing the replacement thermistor on the inside of the wall.

I presented all of my data (calibrated the unit from 50 to 0 degrees. Generally in the ref temps, the temp in the unit is about 5 degrees lower than the LED reads. (Also the LED often reads a couple degrees lower than the "set" temperature.). For example the unit is set at 35, LED reads 33, and the temp in the alcohol is 28 degrees. The water is beginning to freeze, and reads 32 (after overnight). The unit has the compressor running about 25% of the time in these ranges, so power draw is fine.
In the freezer range, we do find it running almost 100% of the time when set at 5, but the temp in the alcohol goes down to minus 8, about the same as the IR thermometer. At 10, the freezer is about 5 by measurement by the IR or in the alcohol. At 16 the freezer is about 10 etc.

Decision, is to use the unit, monitor the temp with food in it. We have ordered the kit, and if it is way off or the current thermistor fails, we have the kit to add in. We are not going to take the case apart.

Interesting that the tech related that apparently the same folks who made the unit for WAECO still make the unit. The only user serviceable parts are two circuit boards and the LED/control unit--and the Thermistor kit. Other than that--buy a new unit. It is interesting that in our discussion, the techs feeling is that these are really made to run at DC voltages of 13.5 plus or minus 5 volts--what your car will run. He felt that the lower voltage of just the battery alone tends to be harder on the compressor, and circuits. So that would be a vote for solar supplement to keep battery voltage up during the daytime.

[RobLL]

I have appreciated this thread. But confess to being a little dismayed at how much work it can be to do something supposedly as simple as plugging in an expensive refrigerator.

I designed and built a large house as a retirement project. I like everything to work right, and am willing to think, work, and spend to make it so. I am hoping not to have to do so much on my first boat. Some but not a lot! This is one of the reasons I do not want to trailer, at least for the first couple years.

[Sunbeam]

[thataway]

It helps if you understand some basic technology. This can come from experience, reading or having a mentor. A lot of information on this site. Note that the Freezer/Ref did not stop working. We had well frozen food, and the luxury of having excellent pre cooked main entrees for a month. This is longer than most C Dory cruises.

The average C Dory trip is a weekend or a week--and an ice chest works great for that. In the PNW ice lasts closer to a week--in Alaska even longer.
Pat Anderson noted that his ARB freezer used a lot less battery power in the PNW, because of the cooler ambient temperature.

We made one 4 year voyage of 41,000 miles, Calif to Europe and back. A few things failed along the way, but we always got the system repaired, or had a work around. Probably out biggest problem was a "cheap" diesel generator. The armature had 3 rewinds, we had a leaking injector pump--and then a technician, damaged the generator when he put in the wrong size O rings, and it ran away, requiring a rebuild of the diesel engine. But the boat had very complex systems, including water maker, washer, dryer, state of the art electronics (for the 1983 era), etc. When we came home everything was working perfectly. The other 4 year trip involved a slightly smaller boat, and was Calif to AK--3 more trips to AK, then down the coast, a 3rd Panama Canal transit, and to Florida. Fewer problems on that boat--but it had a better generator. Again, all systems working well along the way.

Boats are made to be used--not just to be worked on and sat on watching the world go by in a parking lot. Worrying what might happen can be counter productive. Go ahead, make the trip, and fix what breaks along the way--if it breaks. KISS works very well. Don't take it unless you can do without.

[Casey]

Dr. Bob,

We have the same freezer that you and Marie have, and (so far...) it has given excellent service.

If I have a thermistor problem at some point in the future, do you have a part number/price/source for the Waeco/Dometic "kit" that you mentioned?

Best,
C&M

[thataway]

Hi Casey,
I should have the kit next monday, and will post the number, cost etc then. I think it would be a good spare to have aboard. The tech was impressed that the compressed will as quiet and cooling as well as it was.

Although we have the "jacket", and a piece of foam / foil on the top, in the future, we will make a collapsible cover of more foam and Duct tape, which should give some significant increase in insulation. I'll see if we can fit this inside of the "jacket"--also probably double the top insulation, and maybe even make a gasket between that and additional side insulation.

We will use both the IR thermometer and a digital probe type of thermometer to monitor temperatures in the box. Even after this issue, I still think that the WAECO/Dometic product is worth owning. Is ARB better--there are some things which might make one think so. But I am going to run this one until it dies.

[thataway]

I was awoken this AM by the supervisor of Warrantee for refrigeration at Dometic. We had a long conversation, and she was very patient as I explained the problem, and what we have done in testing.

First thing she says, is that there is NO Thermistor replacement kit. She is aware of very few, if any thermistor problems in this specific unit--although some of the larger CF80 and CF 110 units did have two thermisors installed. The final summary was that Dometic was sending me a new CF 50 from Orlando, the nearest warehouse. I did not have to return the old unit (which they do consider not repairable, except for circuit board). I just send the sticker off the unit to her. Her action was based on the fact that the unit was only a couple of months out of warrantee. (Not sure what it would have been if a year out of warrantee).

It took over a week, but eventually my plea to talk to a supervisor in the tech department went thru and was acted upon.

This shows that Dometic, although slow on the front end--came thru in the long run.

[Gilbertsons]

Bob, It's great that you are getting a new freezer. I have started running my new Dometic CF-50 and monitoring a Kill-a-Watt (since I purchased it before the Powell trip you mentioned). I not sure that I will perform the in-depth analysis you did, but I would like to gain from your and Pat's combined experience.

For a variety of reasons I have chose to install solar panels, how many watts would you recommend for Powell trips? Pat, I believe has two 100 watt panels and still needed a little help from the generator.

-Scott

[thataway]

Scott,
Great to hear from you. I believe that Pat has only 100 watts, also Pat's panels are slanted to the side so he can put the kayaks on the rack above them. You are correct that he only ran the generator once in two weeks, also he did have the output of the 150 hp engine--about 40 amps for a couple of hours on ice runs and between anchorages.


I believe C Pelican only had 60 watts, which could be turned in 2 axis, and his was not quite enough, but close. He was also using a power back which measured the amount of input and usage.

The conclusion was that at Powell you probably need more than 100 watts, and I believe that 200 watts should be adequate (of course you do not get full sunlight every day)--also as you know--sometimes it is desirable to have shade. In Iceberg Canyon we had only slightly over 3 hours a day of sunlight.

I have 200 watt solar on my RV, and it is enough to run a 22 cu foot Sansumg household refrigerator, if it is in good full sunshine during the day.

I am considering adding some portable solar panel, just to keep the voltage up during the day when it is hot. But that will depend on the experiments I do in the next few weeks with the 12 volt supply.

[Pat Anderson]

Patty here. Just on correction, EACH of our solar panels is 100 watts. The ARB worked harder on Lake Powell than it has to in the PNW and we still only used the generator one time in 2 weeks, as well as the 2 runs to Dangling Rope. Still very happy with both the solar panels and the ARB.

[thataway]

Thanks for clarifying Patty!

[Gilbertsons]

Thanks Bob and Patty! You guys make us feel so welcome.

Next time we are together at Powell, I'm sure we can compare solar notes and enjoy icy sundowners and ice cream from our freezers!

[thataway]

Follow up: The new freezer came on Tuesday (had to chase the 18 wheeler all over town to get the unit.)

It is identical to the old unit. I put it on 34 degrees with a gallon of water in the unit. After 24 hours it was 33 degrees in the compartment. There was no ice in the water (the old unit was frozen solid at this temp setting). The LCD read 32 degrees. So I turned it down to 30 degrees last night. The unit reads 29 degrees on the LCD, the water is all frozen and the temp in the freezer is 30 degrees.

Conclusion--the old unit ran fine, but it was just the thermistor. We will order a new Thermistor experiment with placement to see where it will give us results similar to the new unit.

Most likely next year, we will use the new unit as a refrigerator, and the old unit as a freezer--no ice chest--we will try this combo on some short trips before the long trip.

At this point, the factor which will determine length of stay, without going to a marina, would be water (we can carry enough fuel for 300 miles plus at displacement speeds, and a few gallons for the generator are easy. Water is only for drinking. 25 gallons goes a long way, and we use lake water for cooking, and all washing etc.

I'll be comparing the current draw of the two units in the next week. But I suspect that they will be similar for similar temperatures. Will also report on thermistor results.

[knewlin]

I did not see one mention of Engel brand freezers. We have been looking at "upgrading" our solar and putting in a fridge/freezer. Does anyone have experience with an Engel? My sailing buddies swear by them.

[Sunbeam]

This is slightly "reverse information," but the main reason I didn't go with an Engel was that I wanted the lid to open in the "normal" cooler direction (i.e. hinges on long side), and almost all of the Engels opened the opposite way (hinges on short side). Otherwise I didn't see any particular reason not to consider them when I was researching. They do use a different compressor than many others (Sawafuji vs. Danfoss), but it looked like they both had their proponents and detractors in somewhat similar measures.

Really, I was somewhat undecided. Other than the National Luna (fantastic looking, but very expensive and somewhat hard to find in stock), none of the others really stood out, and - not having used one - I really wasn't sure what I wanted/didn't want in the way of details/size/etc. The price of the Dometic CF-50 was so good that I went with that one (despite that the lid seemed a bit weak) since I didn't have any concrete reason to choose one of the other ones that cost a fair bit more. Figured if I was going to have regrets after knowing more about how I would use one, I'd rather have them for less money

So I guess I kind of backed into the choice of models