The C-Brats Forum Index
HomeForumsMy TopicsCalendarEvent SignupsMemberlistOur C-DorysThe Brat MapPhotos

Anchoring at Lake Powell
Goto page Previous  1, 2
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The C-Brats Forum Index -> Anchoring
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Discovery



Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 1239
City/Region: LOA, UTAH
State or Province: UT
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Discovery
Photos: Discovery
PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jody, It's for the Alaska trip next spring/summer. I have used a "Bruce" 10 kg in the past, and it won't set in kelp and sea weed. At Powell I always set the anchor on shore by hand, as shown in the picture of Discovery by Dr. Bob.
_________________


Brent and Dixie,
1984 22' Classic sold 2003
2003 24' TomCat sold 2005
2006 TC255 Discovery Sold 2020
2006 CD 22' Angler Sold 2014
https://share.delorme.com/FBrentBetenson
"Free men do not ask permission to bear arms." ~ Thomas Jefferson
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Falco



Joined: 20 Dec 2004
Posts: 164
City/Region: Flagstaff
State or Province: AZ
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: Bucking Coho
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:24 pm    Post subject: Some Powell anchoring advice Reply with quote

Over the last ten years I've spent over 700 days on Lake Powell, all throughout the calendar year; spring, summer, fall and winter. For what its worth, here's my take on anchoring.

I've tried the aft-to-the-beach approach. This takes too many hands (I boat by myself) and is literally impossible if the wind is blowing greater than 15 mph. It also takes too much time. I like to beach and get snugly situated quickly.

I always beach bow-in on a sandy beach. Note this may be no more than 2-3' of sand across between rock. You don't need much beach, which can be a major advantage during the busy season! The steeper the beach, the better. I like plenty of draft beneath my engines... but can live with as little as 2.5 feet.

I always anchor off both my aft cleats. I use 13# Danforths with 15' of 5/16" chain attached to 50' of 1/2" twisted nylon line. I always extend these rodes to at least 45' and carry another 50' of 1/2" twisted nylon line as "extenders" if needed to get the anchors into a sandy spot. Just like open water anchoring, the longer the rode, the better. I've braided eyes into the bight end of the primary rode and another into one end of each extender so I can rapidly clip the primary rode and extender together with carabiners.

With this set up, there is no reason to bury your anchors. (If you do, please fill in the holes when you leave!). Just set the anchors in sand so the flukes are buried. The chain is critical. Folks don't realize that the chain is what dissipates the pulling force on a rode. Without it, you are asking for trouble. Even the Phoenicians knew this!

I've weathered many a Powell storm with this set up. The most violent was one that NWS registered gusts to 72 MPH. The wind-borne sand pitted the windows on my Dory!

Beaching bow-in can make getting on and off the boat challenging for some. I usually use a 4 step, over the bow railing swim ladder unless the beach is steep enough to just jump on and off from. When I take my dog to the lake, I use a 8' folding ramp (aluminum), made for loading trail bikes onto truck beds. I wire tied bunk carpet to the ramp surface to provide more traction. I ratchet strap the ramp to the bow eye and all I have to do is step over the bow railing to use it. (The dog, being a whole lot shorter, just passes under the bow rail. Haha. ). I wire tied two 12" pieces of thick 3/4" pipe insulation to the edges of the ramp where it sits on the boat bow to keep it from scratching the boat. It works great. Its beach end kind of "floats" on the sand with movement of the boat.

I used to worry about the effect of sand on my hull. Frankly, other than a few minor scratches from rocks, my boat's hull where it contacts the beaches is only lightly scuffed.

As to mice- yes, they are here although they are not house mice per se, but pocket mice and kangaroo rats. They rarely board boats unless you leave them a trail of morsels. To prevent such boardings, I sometimes use the big red funnels you can buy at Home Depot and cut them down one side. They then fit (funnel side toward shore) over the 1/2" rodes.

There are many ways to skin a cat. This is the anchoring method for Powell that for me is 100% proven and super quick and easy. This approach is especially effective if you have no crew!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20778
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A couple of comments on a great post. You are so fortunate to live near one of the top boating destinations! I also agree that the stern too is more difficult with no crew. One can certainly debate which is "faster"--bow on the beach with two stern anchors in deep water and one bow anchor on the beach--or somewhere... or stern to the beach with one bow anchor and two stern mooring arrangements--be it anchors, stakes, large rocks or deadman, buried in the sand. For me, it is more difficult to know I have a good set on an anchor in deep water--- than to secure on the beach--be it pushing anchor floors or chains around rocks. Setting two stern anchors--how far apart do you set them? Do you set them both at once--if so, how do you know that they are set fully? Some of these canyons are so deep that it is difficult to get 7:1 scope--and is a reason I have 50' of chain and 300' of 8 plait. My stern anchor rodes are at least 100 to 200 feet in length. I have 2 x15 foot extra chains, for use around rocks or trees. My back up rodes total over 400 feet.

You have to secure the bow--it it goes to the beach--and I didn't see that addressed. I assume you would do with another anchor/stake/deadman etc.? I believe I saw a Fortress in one photo of your boat.

As one ages with back disease, getting over bow railing and up ladders becomes more difficult--but it has its features and advocates. We have also used the folding gang planks for dogs--and found for us--that going stern to the beach works far better--including dogs up to 70#. (I have had plenty of experience with dog gang planks off bows with our 46 and 62 foot boats, as well as c Dory--what works for a person, is best for that person--but not always for others.

I personally don't dig holes for anchors--and most that I see are left there by house boaters. There were some in the illustrations, because those boats happened to use ones which were there--and I agree that they should be filled in.

Having a genuine Danforth anchor is important--the 12# High Test Danforth anchor is far better than the 13# standard for a number of reasons. The steel is far better, the flukes are sharp, and they had the "T" stiffener forged edges, vs bent sheet metal. The worst of the bunch are some of the "Danforth" knock offs. We prefer the Fortress or Guardian anchors--they have outperformed the Danforths in many tests, and are lighter...sort of a paradox in an anchor. The Danforth type are the best for sand--and Mud--Fortress even better for mud.

What carabiners do you use? There are very few carabiners which are rated to handle the load of an anchoring system. I personally will not use one except for some very light weight dinghy type of anchors.

Although I agree that chain is important--One has to always remember that at a certain point chain no longer has the catenary affect once the wind reaches a critical velocity; by 20 knots it is diminished and absent in winds over 40 knots. This is why I believe that the snubbers are essential to avoid shock load in higher wind velocity. 15 feet of chain has very little catenary effect. In larger boats we use at least 150 to 200 feet of chain to get this effect.

Do you anchor off the stern--with anchors in deep water, or anchors to the beach as in your album:



My problem with this approach is when in a storm, the boat can be driven further onto the beach, or allowed to pound on the beach/rocks and no way to pull the boat away from the beach (as we do in a storm).

Another from your great album: I didn't see any illustrations of what I think you advocate.



Thanks

_________________
Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Falco



Joined: 20 Dec 2004
Posts: 164
City/Region: Flagstaff
State or Province: AZ
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: Bucking Coho
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your comments. Thanks too for taking the time to dredge up some old photos! The top photo showing the boat bow into the beach is how I always "anchor" at Powell. I run 50' of rode off each stern cleat to 15' of chain attached to Danforths, as indicated in my posts. I place the anchors into sand.

Yes, my bow anchor is a Fortress. If I had the bucks I would buy two more to replace the old #13 Danforths I use! But I've never had a problem with the old Danforths. I found them both on beaches at Powell. By all means, if you can afford Fortresses, do so, but for me the old crappy Danforths have never failed me.

As to chain - all I know is what I have has always worked. I have never had an anchor and chain pull free and I have seen (and felt) what Powell offers up on dozens of occasions...

The lower photo made me smile. That's how I used to anchor at Powell years ago! What a pain! But I know some folks prefer a "stern in" approach.

As to use of my bow anchor - I only use it on Powell when I anchor away from shore in one of the shallow bays, e.g., Warm Creek, on the east side of the "hook" that extends south from Gunsite Butte and back at the ends of canyons like Navajo. I do not ever set my bow anchor when I beach bow in and use the two anchors off the stern.

As to pounding - this happens only if the bow is not fully "engaged" with the beach. I should have mentioned that when anchoring bow in, I'll bring the bow into contact with the beach then drive the boat up onto the sand - not far, maybe 1-2 feet depending on the steepness of the beach. This locks the bow to the shore.

I set the two anchors off the stern by first tying the ends of the rodes to each aft cleat. I then dump the line and chain overboard and walk the anchor to the bow where I throw it onto the beach. I do the same for the other anchor set up on the opposite side. Then I jump onto the beach and drag the windward anchor tight at a 45 degree angle from the boat. I drop the anchor into the sand when the boat is slightly less than perpendicular to the beach. I make the boat perpendicular again when I stretch out the second anchor set up and pulling hard, drop it into the sand. This makes taut the rode on the opposite side. If needed, I tighten up the rodes back at one or both aft cleats when I get back aboard. Keeping each rode taut keeps the bow on the beach.

I place the windward anchor first to keep the boat from pivoting out of its "lock" with the sandy beach.

I have never had my bow come off the beach using this method.

I have also never been trapped on a beach. To get off when it's time to leave, simply put your engine in reverse and turn the wheel hard to one side. When the aft swings to that side 4-6 feet, simply turn all the way to the opposite direction and let the stern of the boat swing to that side 4-6 feet. Do this until the boat backs off the beach. You might have to give her a bit of throttle (!), but it's mostly about patience.

I have never been "driven onto" a beach to an extent I couldn't back off using the technique above. However, I also try and find beaches where the wind comes from 90 degrees from either side of the direction the bow is pointing. I guess if you had 3' waves coming into the bilge that might drive a Dory up onto a beach!

Pounding at the bow can happen, but it means the bow needs to be driven up onto the beach to "lock it in". Pounding is more of an issue on shallow beaches vs. steep ones.

As to carabiners, I use quick links from REI that have a rating of something like 6700 pounds. See link below.

Anyway, hope this helps!

https://www.rei.com/product/117552/metolius-10mm-quick-link-carabiner
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20778
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the detailed report--and I had envisioned wrongly how you were suggesting anchoring--from the stern. What you are advocating is what all of the houseboats do. This can work for Powell--but I have seen houseboats which stayed for a couple of weeks, where the lake had dropped significantly--and work boats had to be brought in to free her. (probably some of the "release" was the prop wash of the sand out. )

As for the Fortress expense--cannot beat free--but one of my #7 Fortress cost $5 at a garage sale. My #11 was about $25 at an auction. Don't remember the price, but there are several at our local consignment shops...so one does not always have to pay retail.--and the Guardian are a bit cheaper than the Fortress.

I think it is important to be detailed when describing a piece of equipment such as a carabiner. The quick link--is rated much higher than a standard carabiner--but the high rating is the minimum breaking strength--not a safe working load--which is a fraction of the MBS.

The quick link--with a screw connector--not rated for anchoring use below, is much stronger than the typical carabiner:



Typical carabiner: (There are some with locking mechanism--but this type has little strength)

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
colbysmith



Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Posts: 4522
City/Region: Madison
State or Province: WI
C-Dory Year: 2009
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Traveler
Photos: C-Traveler and Midnight-Flyer
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Other than the possibility of the water level dropping a bit and making it tough to get the bow off the beach (which can happen at some of the reservoirs that are known to drop more than several inches in 12 hours), the biggest problem I have with beaching these boats, is the increase of elevating ones feet even more while sleeping in the berth. For those that suffer acid reflux, not a great position...Assuming you sleep feet forward, beaching the boat raising the bow that much more causing the rear to squat even more. This is also going to allow any large wake to come over the engine splash well. My preference, if a dock isn't available, is to tie stern in. That places the bow into any waves/wake, and keeps the boat relatively level. Colby
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
jkidd



Joined: 23 Oct 2006
Posts: 1609
City/Region: Northern, Utah
State or Province: UT
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Voyager
Photos: Voyager (JK)
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Favorite way to anchor no anchors just cottonwoods.

_________________
Jody Kidd
KE7WNG
Northern, Utah

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The C-Brats Forum Index -> Anchoring All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
     Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum



Page generation time: 0.1091s (PHP: 85% - SQL: 15%) - SQL queries: 25 - GZIP disabled - Debug on