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redbaronace
Joined: 29 Aug 2012
Posts: 581
City/Region: Puget Sound
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Photos: redbaronace (Name TBD)
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 Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:13 pm Post subject: Port Side Bilge Pump Wont Turn Off - Tomcat 255 |
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Came to the marina today and found my batteries drained very low. Its been 9 days since we used the boat and did not hook up to shore power when we left. I know that the fridge does use some battery, but we never had an issue before with the batteries being run low or the pump staying on.
After plugging into shore power, the batteries began to charge, but I noticed a sound coming from the transom. It appears that the port side bilge pump is running constantly. I checked the switches at the helm and the port pump light switch is lit up even though it is in the off position. It always stayed lit before as well, so I'm not sure if this is related or not.
There was a small amount of water in the bilge and it slowly all got removed until it was just a trickle coming from the bilge. Because I was worried about the pump running while dry and burning out, I placed a running hose in there. The pump is still running but at least it is pumping water through it while I figure this out.
Any suggestions as to what I should do or might try? I do not think I can get my electrical guy here to troubleshoot tonight.
Bummed. |
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Notayot
Joined: 03 Feb 2005
Posts: 122
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Notayot (sold 2/2018)
Photos: Notayot
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| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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There are probably two electrical circuits to each bilge pump. One is from the switch (fused at control panel behind the steering station) and the other is on all of the time (probably fused near a battery) just in case (automatic). pulling both fuses going to that pump will stop it from running. The float switch (or automatic circuit) is probably stuck "on". Be careful you do not leave your boat unprotected from unexpected rainwater or other infusions of water when the fuses are pulled. There may be a separable connector near the pump that will disable it.
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redbaronace
Joined: 29 Aug 2012
Posts: 581
City/Region: Puget Sound
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Photos: redbaronace (Name TBD)
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| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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Making things more difficult is the fact that the access to the pump is extremely difficult. Battery in the way and it is down in a hole where I cannot even see it.
Grrrr.
I am meeting my electrician friend who just happened to be in the area. Any suggestions on things to remedy this would be much appreciated.
Thanks, |
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rogerbum
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 5922
City/Region: Kenmore
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Meant to be
Photos: SeaDNA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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| redbaronace wrote: | Making things more difficult is the fact that the access to the pump is extremely difficult. Battery in the way and it is down in a hole where I cannot even see it.
Grrrr.
I am meeting my electrician friend who just happened to be in the area. Any suggestions on things to remedy this would be much appreciated.
Thanks, |
I'm assuming this must be on the 24TC and not the 255 as you indicate that the pumps are hard to get to. Correct? Usually these pumps are configured with 3 wires - one is ground, one is hot that goes through the switch on the helm and the other is hot that goes through the float switch or circuitry controlled by an alternate form of water sensor. The switch on the dash should be a manual over-ride. As mentioned above, you probably have a stuck float switch. Often just jiggling that will solve this problem. Sometimes something gets jammed in there an you need to clean it out.
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Roger on Meant to be |
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redbaronace
Joined: 29 Aug 2012
Posts: 581
City/Region: Puget Sound
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Photos: redbaronace (Name TBD)
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| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 1:03 am Post subject: |
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| rogerbum wrote: | | redbaronace wrote: | Making things more difficult is the fact that the access to the pump is extremely difficult. Battery in the way and it is down in a hole where I cannot even see it.
Grrrr.
I am meeting my electrician friend who just happened to be in the area. Any suggestions on things to remedy this would be much appreciated.
Thanks, |
I'm assuming this must be on the 24TC and not the 255 as you indicate that the pumps are hard to get to. Correct? Usually these pumps are configured with 3 wires - one is ground, one is hot that goes through the switch on the helm and the other is hot that goes through the float switch or circuitry controlled by an alternate form of water sensor. The switch on the dash should be a manual over-ride. As mentioned above, you probably have a stuck float switch. Often just jiggling that will solve this problem. Sometimes something gets jammed in there an you need to clean it out. |
This repair was on the 255.
We removed the 2 batteries on the port side and the panel underneath to gain access to the Rule 1100 GPH Automatic Pump. Turns out that the bilge pump had separated from the glue holding it to the bottom and fallen over. This caused it to keep running as it was trying to remove water but unable to right its float switch effectively making it run constantly. The switch on the helm was not able to override the automatic feature of the pump. As a note to anybody who finds this later, we were able to remove the fuse at the back near the batteries and that overrides the automatic feature of the bilge and makes it ONLY turn on and off at the helm.
With further testing, we found that if the pump was remounted upright, it will function as normal. With reassembly, that problem will be solved
NOW, we had another problem and that was that the port side fish macerator pump was not working. I could hear the motor spinning but it was not expelling water except as a trickle. We took the Jabasco Macerator Model 18590-2092 out and found lots of fishing wire and tackle in the metal blades (macerator) which was preventing it from free spinning as normal. After further disassembly of the unit, we found that the impeller was chewed up and missing some teeth. This same condition is on the starboard side as well. The fix for this is a Macerator Pump Service Kit which runs around $60 each.
Total repair cost for parts ended up being $130 plus a friends discounted labor.
We will get the parts and install everything on Sunday. |
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rogerbum
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 5922
City/Region: Kenmore
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Meant to be
Photos: SeaDNA
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| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 9:17 am Post subject: |
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Oh - your batteries are mounted in a different place than on my TC 255. Mine are in the center, under the aft seat in the cockpit and the bilge pumps are easily accessible. The macerator pumps are a PITA to get to on my boat. I did have deck access plates installed that help - one on either side just forward of the hatches on the transom. That might be useful for you.
As for fixing those macerator pumps, I haven't had the fishing line/tackle in the pump problem but still the Jabsco pumps have been very unreliable. Even with just fish scales, fish blood and salt water running through them they seem to fail once every 1-2 years. I've had 3 of those pumps fail in 3 years. I replaced one that failed last year with a Whale Gulper Grouper Mk 2 waste pump at the beginning of this season. The other one failed part way through this summer and will get replaced this weekend with another Whale pump. From what I've read on a number of forums, the whale pumps are more reliable but only time will tell. |
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redbaronace
Joined: 29 Aug 2012
Posts: 581
City/Region: Puget Sound
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Photos: redbaronace (Name TBD)
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| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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| rogerbum wrote: | Oh - your batteries are mounted in a different place than on my TC 255. Mine are in the center, under the aft seat in the cockpit and the bilge pumps are easily accessible. The macerator pumps are a PITA to get to on my boat. I did have deck access plates installed that help - one on either side just forward of the hatches on the transom. That might be useful for you.
As for fixing those macerator pumps, I haven't had the fishing line/tackle in the pump problem but still the Jabsco pumps have been very unreliable. Even with just fish scales, fish blood and salt water running through them they seem to fail once every 1-2 years. I've had 3 of those pumps fail in 3 years. I replaced one that failed last year with a Whale Gulper Grouper Mk 2 waste pump at the beginning of this season. The other one failed part way through this summer and will get replaced this weekend with another Whale pump. From what I've read on a number of forums, the whale pumps are more reliable but only time will tell. |
Roger
We have the live well under the transom seat so there is no access there except through some round access ports down near the lazarettes. My electronics guys is really good at problem solving so while not a boat expert, was able to figure out the problem and get everything disassembled and put back together.
Glad to know that the Jabasco pumps are not of the best quality. Given that mine still work, I am going to try getting by with just rebuilding the pump impellers on each side. We would not have even tackled it had it not been for the issue of the bilge pump which already required us to take everything on that side out.
My labor cost ended up being around $150 for the entire job, so I'm very glad that my friend was available and did not require taking it to a shop where the bill might have been much much more.
I will repost to the thread at a later time to update on how well the pump rebuild kit holds up. It might be that others are tossing their macerator when it could be cleaned up and salvaged. In my case the culprit was loose fishing wire from the previous owner. |
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chriscarrera
Joined: 01 Dec 2010
Posts: 96
City/Region: Bellingham
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Carrera
Photos: Carrera
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| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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I did the rebuild on the macerator, lasted about a year, finally just replaced the macerator. I did have that problem with the port bilge pump keeping on going. It seems sometimes just the right amount of water is in there to trigger it, plus debris around the screen and then it keeps going. Lately it has been fine. Good to hear we all have the same issues.
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"Moore-on" Moore 24
"Carrera" 2006 Tomcat |
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gulfcoast john
Joined: 14 Dec 2012
Posts: 989
City/Region: PENSACOLA
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2010
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Cat O' Mine
Photos: CAT O' MINE
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| Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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My Jabsco fish box macerators were noisy and rusty on sea trial but not the sewage Jabsco (lives under the galley sink, not in the bilge). Note in the West Marine catalog they earn a 1.9 star rating (16 of 22 are 1 star "piece of junk") with many tales of the non-stainless 4 structural pins rusting out and exploding sewage (or fish guts, which seems slightly more aesthetically pleasing) all over everything. Makes me want to encase the motor in a bag or something, just in case. Same complaints with marine use on Amazon.com reviews. I don't think ANY item on the West site has a lower rating (not that I'm the type to sit around all winter reading the West Marine catalog). I'm lazy and just bought a spare on sale at $150 and will try to regard it as a wear item (so I can use the same mounting holes when the time comes).
http://www.westmarine.com/buy/jabsco--macerator-pump--P011_334_005_502
On my Regal pocket cruiser I had a Whale Gulper black water macerator which worked perfectly for 9 years. When a structural band cracked at 8 years they cheerfully sent a free replacement part, 7 years out of warranty. No stories like that in the West Marine Jabsco reviews. On the other hand, $180 vs $260.
I think you'll like the Whale design better, although it makes a noise which borders on comical...not 'manly', shall we say. Your buds can get over it, or get their own ride.
Regarding bilge pumps, the prior owner had the wiring laying loose in the bilge. I replaced them with Rule Gold 2000 pumps (unfused) from Defender.com and I'm really happy with the quietness/smoothness/power/heavy duty feel, and a 5-year warranty! If you find another bilge pump with a 5 year warranty, let us know. These are critical items on an un-attended marina boat if the scuppers get plugged. Also we disconnected the fish box hoses at the pumps (rear anchor/line/umbrella/line/fender/hoses storage in cruise mode), so that overflow also goes in the bilge as well. I replace bilge pumps every 5 years max anyway, because they lead such a hard life and I feel sorry for the poor dears. On the trailer these will smoothly blast a geyser 6-8 feet out. Amazing. Oncoming BMW convertibles coming down the hill beware! (Don't even ask).
http://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?path=-1|51|2234226|2234229&id=84572
As always, YMMD.
Happy Boating!
John
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John and Eileen Highsmith
2010 Tom Cat 255, Cat O' Mine
Yamaha F150, LXF150 |
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Captains Cat
Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 7313
City/Region: Cod Creek>Potomac River>Chesapeake Bay
State or Province: VA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Captain's Choice II
Photos: Captain's Cat
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| Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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What year is your 255? I had small vertical acess hatches on my first 2006 255. Replaced with the largest size possible. I had hull #16. My second 2006 255 already had the larger hatches, didn't need the trained monkey with 4 foot arms to do that job anymore. That one was hull #32. 
The earlier boat also had a board that came out where your batteries are and we left it out. Then the access was much easier, except for the small vertical hatch and long reach, the newer one didn't have the board, but a solid fiberglass deck with fairly large removable round access covers in the deck still not easy. My batteries were where Roger's are.
If you change your profile, we wouldn't have to ask. About which boat/year!  
Charlie
_________________
CHARLIE and PENNY CBRAT #100
Captain's Cat II 2005 22 Cruiser
Thataway (2006 TC255 - Sold Aug 2013)
Captain's Cat (2006 TC255 - Sold January 2012)
Captain's Kitten (1995 CD 16 Angler- Sold June 2010)
Captain's Choice (1994 CD 22 Cruiser- Sold Jun 2007)
Potomac River/Chesapeake Bay
K4KBA |
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redbaronace
Joined: 29 Aug 2012
Posts: 581
City/Region: Puget Sound
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Photos: redbaronace (Name TBD)
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| Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Captains Cat wrote: | What year is your 255? I had small vertical acess hatches on my first 2006 255. Replaced with the largest size possible. I had hull #16. My second 2006 255 already had the larger hatches, didn't need the trained monkey with 4 foot arms to do that job anymore. That one was hull #32.
The earlier boat also had a board that came out where your batteries are and we left it out. Then the access was much easier, except for the small vertical hatch and long reach, the newer one didn't have the board, but a solid fiberglass deck with fairly large removable round access covers in the deck still not easy. My batteries were where Roger's are.
If you change your profile, we wouldn't have to ask. About which boat/year!
Charlie |
Charlie
Our 255 is a 2008 Model Year. Once our TC24 sells, I will update the profile to show just the current boat.
We do have the large access vertical panels at the helm on the 255. Inside there are the batteries sitting on a removable panel. My tech removed the batteries and then the panel in order to have a solid view of what was down below. He is excellent with 12V and small motors and hence figured out the problem once we determined that the fish box hoses were not just clogged with debris.
On Sunday, we will bring our replacement parts to the marina and make the repair.
Does anybody have any suggestions on how to secure the bilge pump upright to the floor to prevent it from tipping over on its side again? I was thinking 5200, but perhaps others have done differently. |
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redbaronace
Joined: 29 Aug 2012
Posts: 581
City/Region: Puget Sound
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Photos: redbaronace (Name TBD)
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| Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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| redbaronace wrote: | | Captains Cat wrote: | What year is your 255? I had small vertical acess hatches on my first 2006 255. Replaced with the largest size possible. I had hull #16. My second 2006 255 already had the larger hatches, didn't need the trained monkey with 4 foot arms to do that job anymore. That one was hull #32.
The earlier boat also had a board that came out where your batteries are and we left it out. Then the access was much easier, except for the small vertical hatch and long reach, the newer one didn't have the board, but a solid fiberglass deck with fairly large removable round access covers in the deck still not easy. My batteries were where Roger's are.
If you change your profile, we wouldn't have to ask. About which boat/year!
Charlie |
Charlie
Our 255 is a 2008 Model Year. Once our TC24 sells, I will update the profile to show just the current boat.
We do have the large access vertical panels at the helm on the 255. Inside there are the batteries sitting on a removable panel. My tech removed the batteries and then the panel in order to have a solid view of what was down below. He is excellent with 12V and small motors and hence figured out the problem once we determined that the fish box hoses were not just clogged with debris.
On Sunday, we will bring our replacement parts to the marina and make the repair.
Does anybody have any suggestions on how to secure the bilge pump upright to the floor to prevent it from tipping over on its side again? I was thinking 5200, but perhaps others have done differently. |
Went to the marina with my electronics guru and got both the impellers of the macerators fixed using the rebuild kits from Fisheries. We also got both bilge pumps operating normally again. Turns out starboard side was also tipped over. In the process, the battery tie downs broke and we changed 2 of them out for new.
All in all, this job took 1.5 days of labor including our troubleshooting and trips to the various suppliers for parts. I think if a person was intimately familiar with the electronics and build of the boat that it could have been fixed in 1/2 the time. As it is, I am so thankful for a friend who came to perform the repair on his days off. It was a nice way for him to make some extra cash, but to save me 75-80% off what a shop would have charged. Also, I am pretty sure that many shops, would have pushed for me to install 2 NEW Macerators and 2 NEW Bilge pumps. As it was, I did not replace any of them.
My total bill ended up in the neighborhood of $300 (parts and labor) instead of a boat unit or more. At 1AM in the morning when we went to final test, we were so delighted to see the strong flow of the fish box drains and bilge pumps. I think I want to take a nap now. |
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