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Wiring question for behind-helm fuse block(s)
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
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City/Region: Pensacola
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C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What else you may want to add, and may require additional fuses:
Fans. I have two in the V Bunk area, and two on the windshield.
Extra lights: LED "night lights" red in the cabin--one near the helm, and one over the galley and table.
LED lights for the cockpit. "spreader" type of lights to face aft.
Some lights for each side--LED--small type or spreader type.
A circuit for a forward light for docking--either mounted on the bow pulpit, or magnetic mount on the anchor.

Extra circuilts for more than one multi function display--one for Radar/GPS sounder, or AIS
separate AIS transceiver
More than one radio.

I like having switches on the side of the console, which I can reach from the bunk to turn on the night lights in the cabin, or lights outside--either to the sides or cockpit for security at night.

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Thataway
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SEA3PO



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Make sure you look on EBAY for marine fuze panel.

I just bought one of those 12 slot ones new for $40 like in your picture.. from Blue Sea (good brand)

What I want it for is to isolate all my electronics connections to a single panel that I can switch on and off... when tied up yet have my radio and interior stuff on a second "house" circuit.
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Sunbeam



Joined: 23 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SEA3PO wrote:
Make sure you look on EBAY for marine fuze panel.

I just bought one of those 12 slot ones new for $40 like in your picture.. from Blue Sea (good brand)


I have an Amazon Prime membership (includes 2-day shipping at no extra charge) and they are $40.95 there, so I have one in my cart. Like you, I find the Blue Sea products to be good. They also came through with great customer service when my ACR seemed to be defective.

SEA3PO wrote:
What I want it for is to isolate all my electronics connections to a single panel that I can switch on and off... when tied up yet have my radio and interior stuff on a second "house" circuit.


Aha, I see. This is "gelling" my idea to just get the one 12-fuse block for now (which will cover everything I currently have plus one extra spot) and then decide on more/how many/where in future, when I know from more experience how I want to go about it.
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colbysmith



Joined: 02 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I sit here listening to the wind blow and waiting for the temperature to drop to a minus 20, I'm thinking of spring projects. One of them may possibly involve rewiring. Currently my boat has a 50 amp circuit breaker back by the battery, in the wire leading up to the fuse block behind the helm. 50 amps seems a little high. I'll have to check later what size the wire is again leading from there, but what size should it be with the 50 amp CB? Also, the wire for the anchor windless does not have a circuit breaker at the battery, but rather one located just behind/next to the helm seat. This is nice to use as a "master" switch for the windless switch, but shouldn't the CB be back at the battery with the other CB? Colby
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

colbysmith wrote:
As I sit here listening to the wind blow and waiting for the temperature to drop to a minus 20, I'm thinking of spring projects. One of them may possibly involve rewiring. Currently my boat has a 50 amp circuit breaker back by the battery, in the wire leading up to the fuse block behind the helm. 50 amps seems a little high. I'll have to check later what size the wire is again leading from there, but what size should it be with the 50 amp CB? Also, the wire for the anchor windless does not have a circuit breaker at the battery, but rather one located just behind/next to the helm seat. This is nice to use as a "master" switch for the windless switch, but shouldn't the CB be back at the battery with the other CB? Colby

Some where between 4 or 6 size wire. The 4 would for for electronics, (3% voltag e drop) and 6 for fans and resistive load (10% voltage drop). However, you probably will never draw 50 amps so #8 may well be "OK" and change out the breaker. Find out how much you are drawling and size the circuit breaker appropriately.

Yes, the circuit breaker should be near the battery, but C Dory has put them
up close to the helm, probably because people use the breaker as a switch. It may not be the best practice, but the breaker seems to hold up OK. As long as there is a load on them when switched, it seems to be OK.
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Captains Cat



Joined: 03 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob, if you use the breaker for a switch, how do you reverse it?

Charlie

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colbysmith



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm actually thinking of putting another CB back by the battery for the Windless wire. While the one up front works nice as a master switch for the windless, I'm more concerned about any shorts between the battery and the CB at the helm. I need to look closer at the main wire then going to the fuse block. There are actually two bus'es (Fuse blocks) in the berth behind the helm, with electronics and lights. I don't imagine there is a lot of draw, the most amperage coming from VHF transmissions and the radar. Otherwise the GPS, two VHF radios while not transmitting, Fish finder, radar and lights probably don't pull more than 10 amps combined. But suppose I should hook up an ampmeter and see what I'm really drawing.
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cbgale



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ABYC Standards should apply. CBs should be within 7"/42"/72" of battery depending on sheathing of wire/wires.
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Sunbeam



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It may be more than you want to wade through, but there was some good discussion of main breaker size and wire/loads to helm in my "Mystery electrical problem" thread started last fall.

Upshot was to figure out your max loads, size the wire appropriately (for round-trip run), and then size the fuse for the wire. I had a 30 amp main fuse and a (IIRC) 12 gauge main helm feed wire, which was basically appropriate for the boat as outfitted (simple/low tech). I calculated my known future loads, plus added a bit of fudge factor for those "little extras," and decided to upgrade to a #6 helm feed wire and a larger fuse (which I say vaguely as I cannot remember right now if I decided to go with 50 or 60 amp fuse after calculating - I'm not with the boat right now).

I've just received most of my new "goodies" and am looking forward to improving things forward of the lazarette Thumbs Up I also ordered a windlass (it did come with its own breaker and the main wiring will be the balance of the rolls of #6 cabling I ordered). Whee, project time!
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colbysmith



Joined: 02 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Sunbeam, yeah I remember that thread...and had followed it somewhat. I did end up ordering some 6 gauge marine wire off of Ebay for a good price. Even if I don't need to replace the wire that is already on the boat, I may still decide to run another line and keep those two fuse blocks separated.

Bob, regarding the voltage drop, is the drop relative to the amperage, or is the drop constant? Thanks. Colby
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rogerbum



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

colbysmith wrote:
Hi Sunbeam, yeah I remember that thread...and had followed it somewhat. I did end up ordering some 6 gauge marine wire off of Ebay for a good price. Even if I don't need to replace the wire that is already on the boat, I may still decide to run another line and keep those two fuse blocks separated.

Bob, regarding the voltage drop, is the drop relative to the amperage, or is the drop constant? Thanks. Colby

The voltage drop is amperage dependent. The wire is simply another resistor in the circuit and the resistance depends on the length (longer = more resistance) and the diameter (bigger diameter = less resistance). So the more current you put through, the bigger the voltage drop (DeltaV=I*R where R is the resistance of the wire).

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colbysmith



Joined: 02 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Roger.
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thataway



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Captains Cat wrote:
Bob, if you use the breaker for a switch, how do you reverse it?

Charlie


The breaker or an "on" switch is put near the helm in many power boat applications with large amperage draw to prevent accidental use.--and there needs to be fuse or breaker protection near the battery. Examples are bow thrusters and windlass. Bow thruster, you don't want someone accidentally hitting the thruster (often many stations) when you are docking.

The windlass is perhaps even more serious--you don't want someone hitting the up or down switch when some one is near the windlass, and mangling an extremity.

In the case of the C dory, the up and down functions are done by remote switch at the helm toggle switch (often to a reversing relay) or on the deck with foot switches.

Roger gives an excellent explanation of the resistance of wire, as part of the circuit. You always must figure the "round trip"--length of positive and negative wire. So if it is 15 feet of wire from the battery to the bus bar behind the helm console, figure the total run of 30 feet.
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colbysmith



Joined: 02 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2 days in a row of 40 degree weather, but back into ice and cold tomorrow....so anyway I opened the cover a bit and crawled on board my C-22. A few weeks ago I ordered and received some marine 6 gauge "battery cable". Looking today at what was factory, sure looks like 10 gauge wire to me. The Anchor windless is probably 6 gauge (but not quite as heavy as the cable I just bought...probably just sheathing size.) The thermal CB back at the battery is 50 amp. The anchor wire is not fused until just behind the helm seat, where it also has a switchable thermal 50 amp CB. I also bought a 50 amp CB that I will put in the anchor wiring by the battery. Ok, back to the 10 gauge that is factory installed. As of yet, I have had no problems running these items, not necessarily all at once, but many times several at once (including all electronics at night underway....) 2 VHF radios, Radar, Garmin GPSMAP, Navman Fish Finder, and then of course you have the nav lights, cabin lights and bilge pumps. I suppose I could take the time to figure out current draw, but if it ain't broke, why fix it? Yeah, I know.... anyway I'm still rewiring with the 6 gauge cable between the 50 amp thermal CB and the fuse blocks. The boat has the set up with two fuse blocks, so I'll also replace the smaller jumper with the 6 gauge. FWIW, the 6 gauge is pretty thick stuff. (Probably why it's referred to as battery cable! Wink I got the wire ran in the boat today, but out of time so will finish the project next time we get some more warm weather...
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