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sk8sno
Joined: 24 Jun 2013
Posts: 2
City/Region: SF Bay Area
State or Province: CA
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 Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:18 pm Post subject: Hi All |
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Hi ALL,
I wanted to introduce myself;
I've been a member for a month or so now (trolling) and am completely sold on the C-Dory boat. I live in the SF Bay area about 15 minutes from a decent launch ramp by Suisun (yes it is considered the Bay Area). Anyway, I think the C-Brats site is AWESOME! and am looking forward to becoming an official member. Becoming an 'official' member will happen when I purchase my newest desire... a C-Dory 22 cruiser. I've been sailing the Bay for the last 5 years and am ready for America's cup as it's going to be very exciting... Go Oracle, I digress. Needless to say, I have cDoryitus and have been able to keep my newly found disorder in check as I have been approved for a loan and have a boat in mind however, I am finding it difficult conveying price discrepancies between NADA, (my bank) and what the current market dictates. Any suggestions? I am working with the seller and would appreciate all help.
Salutations and warmest or regard,
-sk8 |
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redbaronace
Joined: 29 Aug 2012
Posts: 582
City/Region: Puget Sound
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Tomcat
Photos: redbaronace (Name TBD)
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| Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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On another members purchase, the bank was able to take into consideration the trailer's value and up the loanable amount.
Otherwise, it would appear that the bank valuation resources, all price the c-dory's lower than what they actually sell for in the market. |
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colobear
Joined: 23 Jan 2005
Posts: 2154
City/Region: Denver
State or Province: CO
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: C-Cakes
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| Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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Many people have that same problem. The "book" value is much less than the actual value. You might go down the for sale by owner list and show what similar boats have actually sold for. You might also see if one of the dealers on site would be willing to say what they might be selling a similar boat for. Good luck.
_________________
Patti and Barry
formerly C-Cakes, now
rving around N. America |
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sk8sno
Joined: 24 Jun 2013
Posts: 2
City/Region: SF Bay Area
State or Province: CA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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Where can I find an on site dealer. At this point it would be easier for me to purchase new.
Thx for your help |
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Wandering Sagebrush
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 2784
City/Region: Northeast Oregon
State or Province: OR
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Constant Craving
Photos: Constant Craving
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| Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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Sk8,
I've lost track of most of the dealers, but two that stand out for me are Sportcraft in Portland, and Wefings in Florida. I bought from Ryan Bigbee at Sportcraft. Good people, willing to deal. Mark at Wefings is a great guy as well. I haven't bought from them, but I have had several occasions to speak with him.
Steve
_________________
"And in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years." - Abraham Lincoln |
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redbaronace
Joined: 29 Aug 2012
Posts: 582
City/Region: Puget Sound
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Tomcat
Photos: redbaronace (Name TBD)
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| Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| colobear wrote: | | Many people have that same problem. The "book" value is much less than the actual value. You might go down the for sale by owner list and show what similar boats have actually sold for. You might also see if one of the dealers on site would be willing to say what they might be selling a similar boat for. Good luck. |
The only potential issue I see with using the "Market Place Reference" as a guide is that it only provides proof that a boat was sold, and what it was listed for. It does not give any reference to what the final sales price ended up being which may have been much lower. |
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hardee
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 12637
City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
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| Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:19 am Post subject: |
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Other "recent" dealers would include Matt Gurnsey at Kitsap Marine and Les at EQ Marine. Then there are the ones you find on the Mfg website.
Another possibility, Offer the listings that are close, from this list. Those may not be the exact selling price, but they are not that far apart.
The breed stands apart.
Harvey
SleepyC 
_________________
Though in our sleep we are not conscious of our activity or surroundings, we should not, in our wakefulness, be unconscious of our sleep. |
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DuckDogTitus
Joined: 31 Jan 2013
Posts: 1034
City/Region: Gig Harbor
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1988
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Miner
Photos: Hemingway
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| Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 10:30 am Post subject: |
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| redbaronace wrote: |
The only potential issue I see with using the "Market Place Reference" as a guide is that it only provides proof that a boat was sold, and what it was listed for. It does not give any reference to what the final sales price ended up being which may have been much lower. |
typically I'd say that's probably true but I looked at quite a few CDorys when I bought mine earlier this year and the dickering doesn't go far from what I've seen. these boats are valued more like collectibles than depreciating automobiles it seems. In the used marketplace it more or less seems to be a sellers market.
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Dustin |
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getzold
Joined: 12 Nov 2005
Posts: 64
City/Region: Annapolis
State or Province: MD
C-Dory Year: 1993
C-Dory Model: 19 Angler
Photos: Wee Wine
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| Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 11:04 am Post subject: Market Value |
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Just went through the financing/insurance issue with the purchase of a 93 angler 19. Had to get a marine survey done to establish a value. Survey came in $3,000 more than the offer, so no problems after that.
Gerry
Wee Wine 2
_________________
Gerry Etzold
1993 16 Angler - Wee Wine - Sold 2010
2002 Monk 36 - Monk's Vineyard - Sold June 2013
1993 19 Angler - Wee Wine 2
http://gletzold.blogspot.com |
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Sunbeam
Joined: 23 Feb 2012
Posts: 3990
City/Region: Out 'n' About
State or Province: Other
C-Dory Year: 2002
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: Sunbeam
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| Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 11:51 am Post subject: |
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| DuckDogTitus wrote: |
typically I'd say that's probably true but I looked at quite a few CDorys when I bought mine earlier this year and the dickering doesn't go far from what I've seen. |
That was my experience 22 shopping in winter/spring of 2012 as well. Aside from a few boats that were either clearly overpriced (and thus stayed for sale for months/year), or marketed in some sub-par way (no information, you had to sign up to a service to see photos etc.), it seemed to me that most 22's sold for reasonably close to their asking prices and relatively quickly. I don't know how you prove that though. |
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redbaronace
Joined: 29 Aug 2012
Posts: 582
City/Region: Puget Sound
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Tomcat
Photos: redbaronace (Name TBD)
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| Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Sunbeam wrote: | | DuckDogTitus wrote: |
typically I'd say that's probably true but I looked at quite a few CDorys when I bought mine earlier this year and the dickering doesn't go far from what I've seen. |
That was my experience 22 shopping in winter/spring of 2012 as well. Aside from a few boats that were either clearly overpriced (and thus stayed for sale for months/year), or marketed in some sub-par way (no information, you had to sign up to a service to see photos etc.), it seemed to me that most 22's sold for reasonably close to their asking prices and relatively quickly. I don't know how you prove that though. |
Im not doubting the prices, but in fact am agreeing that the loan values are lower than the actual market values.
But as in real estate, what is most important to an appraiser is what a house sold for rather than what it was listed at. Short of knowing what the sold comps are, its hard to establish value. The challenge for establishing the c-dory value is to prove that the book values are too low. That is not so easy to do, especially when the loan originator knows nothing about boats and is just using their reference manuals as their basis.
I had a problem with securing a loan on our purchase due to this very issue. My brother in law did as well and both of these purchases were recent. Which brings up a question. What is the most reliable and accurate source for pricing used boats? |
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Sunbeam
Joined: 23 Feb 2012
Posts: 3990
City/Region: Out 'n' About
State or Province: Other
C-Dory Year: 2002
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: Sunbeam
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| Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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| redbaronace wrote: |
Im not doubting the prices, but in fact am agreeing...
...But as in real estate, what is most important to an appraiser is what a house sold for rather than what it was listed at. Short of knowing what the sold comps are, its hard to establish value. ...
...Which brings up a question. What is the most reliable and accurate source for pricing used boats? |
Understood and agreed. There is a part of Yachtworld called, IIRC, "soldboats," which does give selling prices. It can be a great tool for a type of boat that's sold in good numbers on YW. Two details though:
1) You need to be a broker to get access to that (although it's not that hard). But maybe more significant...
2) I'd guess that not that many C-Dorys are sold through Yachtworld, percentage-wise. Most of the ones that were on YW when I was shopping looked to have been there a while languishing (I'm sure there are exceptions, but just saying that I think the data there might not be a representative sample; might be worth checking though.)
Sunbeam |
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DuckDogTitus
Joined: 31 Jan 2013
Posts: 1034
City/Region: Gig Harbor
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1988
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Miner
Photos: Hemingway
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| Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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| redbaronace wrote: |
I had a problem with securing a loan on our purchase due to this very issue. My brother in law did as well and both of these purchases were recent. Which brings up a question. What is the most reliable and accurate source for pricing used boats? |
my experience is that banks don't care. they value a boat based upon its age and a depreciating scale from there. They can see what they are selling for, but it will not change their valuation. a used boat that is old enough simply wont get the financing without some creativity.
Insurance on the other hand, will look at the true value of the boat, its accessories, motor, trailer, and recent sales and give you a better valuation, in my experience.
I called MANY banks and credit unions and most of them, even those that were at the SBS said Keybank was one of the best for marine financing. with that said, Key valued my boat at less than 1/2 what I paid, and I believe the seller gave me a very fair price at that. |
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starcrafttom
Joined: 07 Nov 2003
Posts: 7937
City/Region: marysville
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1984
C-Dory Model: 27 Cruiser
Vessel Name: to be decided later
Photos: Susan E
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| Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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when I bought the 27 I had to have a survey, my idea, to give the bank a price other then the blue book which did not even have my boat. Or in the words of one bank employee "your boat does not exist" 
Most banks and lenders know nothing about boats and there for rely on the blue books to guide them. If you can get a survey done they will except that as a "expert" opinion. That said both of the guys that did my surveys ( on a boat sold and a boat bought) could not find a stern plug with both hands, which was in my favor as they just did what I told them to do and we all got along fine. I got my price and the bank got a opinion other then their own and the loans got approved. Know the system, work the system.
_________________
Thomas J Elliott
http://tomsfishinggear.blogspot.com/ |
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DuckDogTitus
Joined: 31 Jan 2013
Posts: 1034
City/Region: Gig Harbor
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1988
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Miner
Photos: Hemingway
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| Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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| starcrafttom wrote: | when I bought the 27 I had to have a survey, my idea, to give the bank a price other then the blue book which did not even have my boat. Or in the words of one bank employee "your boat does not exist"
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keybank called me on a saturday morning to let me know they valued the boat at $X, just under 50% of the selling price, despite me providing them with a dozen comps and then promptly asked if I wanted them to process the paperwork so I could make a counter offer to the seller. They wanted me to off him 1/2 price based upon their valuation. I said no, its staying exactly where it is, you figure out how to finance it or you're fired, I'll just pay cash. they did. |
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